The Jockey Journal

oldschoolsoldier · 07-01-2009, 11:38 PM

Okay this might be a dumb question but I would like to know......

I was at a local bike salvage place where they had a "shovel"head in the work bay. When I inquried about what year the shovel was the guy told me that it wasnt a shovel. When I pointed out to him that it had shovel rocker boxes on it he said that it was a pan bottom shovel top and that was why it wasnt considered a shovelhead.

Now I was under the impression that the older shovels were all made with pan lowers and shovel tops. So my question is since it has shovel tops wouldnt that make it a shovelhead?

Thanks for the help.

Toecutterp · 07-01-2009, 11:47 PM

Get ready

BlackWolf · 07-01-2009, 11:58 PM

Pan/Shovel, Generator Shovel, Slabside Shovel, Flatside Shovel, pick one. Its still a shovelhead regardless of what that guy says.

chopperkid13 · 07-02-2009, 12:00 AM

Who cares... Why would someone put shovel heads on a pan anyway? Pans Rule!

BlackWolf · 07-02-2009, 12:03 AM

Harley did from 1966 to 1969. It was a panhead lower end and shovelhead top end

allcoamex · 07-02-2009, 12:07 AM

I't could have been a 48-65 pan w/shovel heads. The genny motors get their names from the heads, hence Shovel "head". maybe that's what he meant panhead year bottom.years 65 lower pan shovel, 66 up shovelhead.So what year was it?. Fred

Destralo Roach · 07-02-2009, 12:15 AM

It started way back in 1936 with the KNUCKLEHEAD!!! then H-D PUT Panheads ON THE KNUCKLE lowerend!!!!!! So there!!!!!

66-69 are Generater shovels, 48-65 OHV with pan heads, 36-47 OHV with overhead valves "called knuckleheads" The factory didnt call the OHV anything intill 66 when they started calling them "shovelheads"..........Roach.

oldschoolsoldier · 07-02-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allcoamex

So what year was it?. Fred

All he said was "Its a 70 something...........I think and its for sale do you want to buy it? ." I asked how much and he wanted $15,500 for it!

I think the guy was just trying not to look like a douche in front of his dad who actually owns the yard but who knows.

Thanks for the info guys!

Liquid Choppers · 07-02-2009, 01:13 AM

1936-1954 are generator cases although they are "roller bearing" bottom ends. 1955-1969 have generator cases although have the timken style bearings in the cases. you may put shovel heads on any of the generator cases, also referred to the "pan/shovel"

The best thing to do would be to check the numbers on the cases to figure out what year it is.

=JL= · 07-02-2009, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopperkid13

Who cares... Why would someone put shovel heads on a pan anyway?

Better breathing = more horsepower and torque.
Before Pans were quaint and "vintage", they were just old, and this was a very common performance mod.

Destralo Roach · 07-02-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =JL=

Better breathing = more horsepower and torque.
Before Pans were quaint and "vintage", they were just old, and this was a very common performance mod.

And because the shovelheads had shaft mounted rockers, they lasted longer then the panheads clamshell rockers......Roach.

jjayf · 07-02-2009, 02:03 AM

hey roach do you know the actual horsepower gains through the years from FL knuckles pans and shovels ...were they significant...I'm not sure they were huge...

Capino · 07-02-2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopperkid13

Who cares... Why would someone put shovel heads on a pan anyway? Pans Rule!

I love pans but the generator shovel is the best looking motor in my opinion.

badassbrutus · 07-02-2009, 06:48 AM

I heard the put shovel heads on back in the day for performance and better top end oiling.i bought a 55 pan engine with shovel heads from a old timer and that is what he said how tru it is I dont know but I do know the oiling part is true.

Larry T · 07-02-2009, 08:22 AM

Shovel top end on panhead=latest hot set up of the 60s/70s.

JoeShovel · 07-02-2009, 08:56 AM

Hells yeah....

66 shovel with 58 lower end... Gorgeous motor fo sho!!

jq49pan · 07-02-2009, 10:00 AM

What ever year it says on the case then that what it is. If its older than a 65 then its a panhead no matter what someone replaced the top end with. +1 on your post chopperkid.

BigDawg · 07-02-2009, 10:24 AM

If it's a 48-65, then it WAS a panhead and now has shovel heads on it...call it what you like. If it's a 66-69, then it's a shovelhead (I hate the term pan/shovel). If it's 70+, then it's in alternator cases and the dude is a dumbass, as Panheads (from Harley) were never offered in anything other than genny cases.

Generally when I'm talking to someone about a shovelhead, I'll ask whether it's a generator shovel or a cone shovel.

=JL= · 07-02-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jq49pan

+1 on your post chopperkid.

+2, I wouldn't ditch a Pan top end either.
Just saying that a few years ago, when a stripped-down, hotrodded Harley was one of the fastest things on the road, that extra ten percent performance seemed important.

jq49pan · 07-02-2009, 10:54 AM

Yeah but now its all about "preserving"

07-01-2009, 11:38 PM	#1
oldschoolsoldier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Utah Posts: 366	Shovelhead/panhead motor question Okay this might be a dumb question but I would like to know...... I was at a local bike salvage place where they had a "shovel"head in the work bay. When I inquried about what year the shovel was the guy told me that it wasnt a shovel. When I pointed out to him that it had shovel rocker boxes on it he said that it was a pan bottom shovel top and that was why it wasnt considered a shovelhead. Now I was under the impression that the older shovels were all made with pan lowers and shovel tops. So my question is since it has shovel tops wouldnt that make it a shovelhead? Thanks for the help. __________________ http://bottlecapbackflow.blogspot.com/

07-01-2009, 11:47 PM	#2
Toecutterp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wenatchee Wash Posts: 889	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Get ready

07-01-2009, 11:58 PM	#3
BlackWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 137	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Pan/Shovel, Generator Shovel, Slabside Shovel, Flatside Shovel, pick one. Its still a shovelhead regardless of what that guy says. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

07-02-2009, 12:00 AM	#4
chopperkid13 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: central NJ Posts: 643	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Who cares... Why would someone put shovel heads on a pan anyway? Pans Rule! __________________ "If you build it, they will come...Whatever the fuck that means." - Myself "It feels nothing like, how violent it looks from the outside. It's very serene." -Shinya Kimura.

07-02-2009, 12:03 AM	#5
BlackWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 137	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Harley did from 1966 to 1969. It was a panhead lower end and shovelhead top end __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

07-02-2009, 12:07 AM	#6
allcoamex Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago,Il Posts: 183	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question I't could have been a 48-65 pan w/shovel heads. The genny motors get their names from the heads, hence Shovel "head". maybe that's what he meant panhead year bottom.years 65 lower pan shovel, 66 up shovelhead.So what year was it?. Fred

07-02-2009, 12:15 AM	#7
Destralo Roach Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tera Firma WA Posts: 6,369	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question It started way back in 1936 with the KNUCKLEHEAD!!! then H-D PUT Panheads ON THE KNUCKLE lowerend!!!!!! So there!!!!! 66-69 are Generater shovels, 48-65 OHV with pan heads, 36-47 OHV with overhead valves "called knuckleheads" The factory didnt call the OHV anything intill 66 when they started calling them "shovelheads"..........Roach. __________________ The Road to success is covered by the Backs of Many! I chose the Hard way!!!!

07-02-2009, 01:13 AM	#9
Liquid Choppers Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NY Posts: 14	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question 1936-1954 are generator cases although they are "roller bearing" bottom ends. 1955-1969 have generator cases although have the timken style bearings in the cases. you may put shovel heads on any of the generator cases, also referred to the "pan/shovel" The best thing to do would be to check the numbers on the cases to figure out what year it is.

07-02-2009, 02:03 AM	#12
jjayf Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: wa Posts: 272	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question hey roach do you know the actual horsepower gains through the years from FL knuckles pans and shovels ...were they significant...I'm not sure they were huge...

07-02-2009, 06:48 AM	#14
badassbrutus Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: In a Van down by the river Posts: 1,402	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question I heard the put shovel heads on back in the day for performance and better top end oiling.i bought a 55 pan engine with shovel heads from a old timer and that is what he said how tru it is I dont know but I do know the oiling part is true. __________________ Nothing better than drinking beer and throwin lead.. Except riding my Sled. If you like me fine....If you dont Fuck You. AKA...Hemi Head

07-02-2009, 08:22 AM	#15
Larry T Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: North Central Texas Posts: 2,637	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Shovel top end on panhead=latest hot set up of the 60s/70s. __________________ I foresee yet another closely defined historic term being corrupted, aborted and ruined.-Dragon My old Panhead build: http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=9455

07-02-2009, 08:56 AM	#16
JoeShovel Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Clayton, NC by way of Brooklyn NY Posts: 296	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Hells yeah.... 66 shovel with 58 lower end... Gorgeous motor fo sho!! Attached Thumbnails __________________ If you cry at my funeral I will never speak to you again! http://jalopyjoe.blogspot.com/

07-02-2009, 10:00 AM	#17
jq49pan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: las vegas, nv Posts: 676	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question What ever year it says on the case then that what it is. If its older than a 65 then its a panhead no matter what someone replaced the top end with. +1 on your post chopperkid.

07-02-2009, 10:24 AM	#18
BigDawg Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buford, GA Posts: 1,834	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question If it's a 48-65, then it WAS a panhead and now has shovel heads on it...call it what you like. If it's a 66-69, then it's a shovelhead (I hate the term pan/shovel). If it's 70+, then it's in alternator cases and the dude is a dumbass, as Panheads (from Harley) were never offered in anything other than genny cases. Generally when I'm talking to someone about a shovelhead, I'll ask whether it's a generator shovel or a cone shovel. __________________ "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." -Colonel Sanders The BDAC

07-02-2009, 10:54 AM	#20
jq49pan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: las vegas, nv Posts: 676	Re: Shovelhead/panhead motor question Yeah but now its all about "preserving"

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