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Old 09-22-2008, 11:03 AM   #1
Conder
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Default McQueen/Smith.

Okay, I'm back again. I should be working...I'm sorry. I'm thinking of building a small, stocky little Mert Lawwil style Sportster to commute on, which got me thinking about the movie On Any Sunday, which made me remember my favorite motocrosser of all time, The big 2-stroke Husqvarna. Remember the "Baja Husky" model kit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g66_fKrB3U

Did Husqvarna ever make an air cooled 4-stroke with a charging system? New or old? I'm thinking why not build an original, show room stock looking '60s - '73 Husky CR with early enduro tires, lights and a high mileage (70 m.p.g.?) 4-stroke big single.

I'm sure there are some vintage Husky superfans on here. How 'bout it?
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Sorta related, I think I had the same thing in mind (commuter Sportster with some race flair). Still under construction while fulfilling it's intended function...



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Old 09-22-2008, 12:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Not a four stroke but this could be you on the way to work...

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Old 09-22-2008, 12:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Nice Sporty Dr. I have plans for something like that for my next bike too. but with bigger seat more like this one, but set lower like yours -
http://nostalgiaonwheels.blogspot.co...rty-racer.html



Conder, not sure, but don't think there were any Husky 4-strokes with charging system for lights.. ?

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Old 09-22-2008, 12:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

I'm no expert but I don't believe that Husky made a fourstroke during that era but for some reason I've got in the back of my head that they were messing around with a prototype but I might be confusing that with the automatic that they produced for a coupla years.

Here's my 79 390cr... I let a buddy of mine that club races a Ducati 916 buz down the back alley behind his shop on it and it scared the bee-jeezus out of him. I sold it about a year ago.

Bought it for 50 bucks after it had been sitting outside for about 3 years in Indiana and took it from a rotted out rust heap to this.

It was like a tractor in the woods but could out drag a lot of modern bikes...


(Benway: I'm diggin the sporty...)


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Old 09-22-2008, 03:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

If you go back farther to 1960-63 you can find a 500cc Husqvarna 500cc single that is also using an AMC gearbox (I was in the process of building my own version with a not so stock Enfield engine back home). The 500cc single is in fact a 4 stroke. Runs off a Mag.
BUT if you managed to get one of these frames, or perhaps even a running machine, I am sure that you could either modify an electrical system onto it - or swop out the 500cc single with the engine out of a Matchless G80 or something of that nature.

Then you would have a 4 stroke 500cc single Husqvarna that you could commute on, with lights and everything. It'd also be something no one else has.






Or you could use an Enfield enginge, but I DID have to saw off the oil tank to make it match up. Then I had to get creative with the primary drive. I have ideas for running oil - but they included cannibalizing the oil filter and the feed and return pumps... I don't know, I won't be back to collect that stuff for a year. A G80 engine should more or less just bolt in.

Last edited by Wizid; 09-22-2008 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

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Originally Posted by boondocker View Post
Not a four stroke but this could be you on the way to work...

HELL YEAH! I'm thinking maybe disguising a newer Husky dual-sport 4-stroke into an early chassis. Hopefully an air cooled one so no radiator. I'm thinking the dual-sports have a charging system too. Haven't had a chance to probe the net looking for the donor bike. Anybody know anything about the new Husky stuff?

I prefer the term "Enduro" over "Dual-sport"...I must be 43. Nice Sportster Benway.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

There was a shop here in ATL putting Suzuki 650 motors in BSA A10 frames. I have no idea if they are still in business. I had BSA 441 powered Greeves...it was more or less street legal, anyway it had lights and a license plate (even if it wasn't for this bike). The motor was built by Gary Bailey in the late 60s and was a handful to ride, but one of my favorites. Greeves frames are so ugly they grow on you and for the time were good handlers and pretty light weight.
I always thought a modern Honda XL/XR 500 motor in a Brit (prefer BSA) frame would make a good street scrambler. In fact, I have been hanging on to an A10 frame with this in mind.

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Old 09-22-2008, 08:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.




I can't stop looking at this motorcycle...
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

There were a few different Swedish 4-stroke motocrossers around in the early sixties like that... but I wouldn't like your chances of ever finding one... plus what they'd be worth today. They weren't exactly 'production' bikes... more like 'works' racers... But damn nice bikes. I've always loved those things.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

The last air cooled 4-stroke Husky I think they made was the 1983 510cc single. I had one and it was mag ignition and a biotch to start (always had bad ignition), but once running and timed right, had an unbelievable power band and top end.
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog View Post
There were a few different Swedish 4-stroke motocrossers around in the early sixties like that... but I wouldn't like your chances of ever finding one... plus what they'd be worth today. They weren't exactly 'production' bikes... more like 'works' racers... But damn nice bikes. I've always loved those things.
Thats why I figured upon making one. I had to head to MMI before I got too far into the project but the general idea was scrounge an early Husky frame and then use a spare British single I had laying around. A Matchless, BSA, or Norton engine would be better - but I had a Royal Enfield engine.

So I sawed off the oil tank to make it a closer fit to the engine in those pictures - then fabricated mounts and such, did some funky work with a belt to join up the AMC gearbox with the 2002 Enfield engine - which also made the primary easier.

When I left it was the oil system that I was still figuring out. I have it now in my head - but the project is on a bench 3000 miles East of here.

Compliments of Hitchcocks Motorcycles in England I was confident I could get enough HP out of the bike to make it practical - but I was gunning for a scrambler of sorts, not a street bike. That said I am sure the street bike setup could be done in this format with little trouble.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

I don't believe Husky made a production 4stroke back in the 70's, at least not an enduro model anyway. But there is a loophole that you can use and still technically be within period originality. Back in the day Bengt Aberg used a Yamaha TT500 engine in a Husky frame and won the 500cc European GP. This gave birth the HL500 which is the holy grail to many Yam 500 enthusiasts. Profab in California built the frames, in fact I have one of their aluminum swingarms hanging in my garage.
Pick up a cheap XT500 and a Husky frame and you've got yourself a pretty damn cool bike for getting around town and hitting the trails with. The HL was a lot more MX'ish than you're looking for but an older style Husky frame, cosmetics and running gear should fix that. Would love to see what you have come up with so far on the Enfield project.

Last edited by Commando; 09-23-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

I was talking to my brother last night, and he seems to think using a current 600 cc Honda 4-stroke would work as well. Apparently they've used this same motor for a long time. It's dependable and easy to get parts for. Only thing is, these new 4-strokes are very tall engines with a slim looking cylinder. The early Husqvarnas had beautiful, blocky engines, especially the side covers.

Strangely enough, the aesthetic elements that draw me to an early Husky are the same as what attracts me to early H-Ds...

*Tall and thick looking back wheel with one bare and open side. (Drum brakes).
*Large diameter, very thin front wheel, again with one open, uncluttered side.
*Stocky, beautifully designed engine.
*Fantastic sheet metal.
*Clean, simple, uncluttered frame.

And on a pure nostalgic note: Those big, flat number plates with the rolled bead around them and super wide bars...When I was 10 or so my Dad and uncles would sit me on their 125s and 250s, hold the seat until I took off and then sit back and watch me turn laps in the big horse pasture we had. I can still remember how that felt, stretching for those bars and trying to be smooth so I didn't blip the throttle and wind up on my ass! I was Malcom Smith or Roger DeCoster! The sound and smell of early 2-stroke motocrossers is a fine thing man! Maybe I'll just run it with the stock motor set up for lights. Splittin' lanes on the way to work would be a BREEZE...YIIIING DA DING DING DA DING!!!!! YYYYYAAAAAA-A-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNGGGG DA DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The traffic'll part like the red sea!

How did they set-up lights on the ISDT Huskys? In the picture above Malcom's running lights.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

I love the mid 60's to early 70's stuff too... something about the machines of that era had a no-nonsense look about them. Here's a real beauty of a works machine based on a BSA single. That motor is amazing.



Lifted from http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbik....jsp?id=266743

Alan Clews, founder of CCM, was a successful Trials and Scrambles rider in the late 60?s on home-built Ariel trials bikes and various English engined Rickman Metisse Scramblers. But Alan wanted a lighter, more nimble and modern MX bike, like the BSA factory engined 500cc works specials. A works bike was not to be had by anyone other than a rider the stature of BSA factory rider and 2 times World 500cc MX Champion Jeff Smith. The only way to ride an English four stroke and have a chance against the growing onslaught of European two strokes was for Alan to build his own special. Just the right opening came at the collapse of the BSA Competition Department, and the selling off of various works frames and other needed parts. Unfortunately, or so it might have been seen by Clews at the time, was that no works engines were to be sold off. Clews saw his opportunity all the same and bought all the works parts that were available for his own use. But, instead of assuring his own supply of works parts, Clews started building MX bikes in his garage. Not having works engines just made Clews develop his own extensive improvements to the standard BSA B50 500cc engine which could be had by breaking up existing BSA B50 MX bikes.

Word got out, if you wanted a BSA 500cc Special that could compete with the likes of the production CZ, Husky, and Maicos of the day Alan Clews was the man to see. He named his first batch of seven bikes Clews Stroka. The first machines also started a design trend that continued to the end of CCM's days, the "scalloped" and lightweighted BSA B50 barrel. The standard BSA barrel was at first machined but later recast by Clews in the classic staggered fin shape. The modification to the BSA B50 barrel was made to lighten the BSA engine but also to keep the English mud from building up during the very wet English scrambles meets. Of course, it also gave the standard BSA barrel a new look that appealed to racers. CCM started out modifying the motor from the very beginning, the first bike built for sale being bored and stroked to over 600 cc.

Luck was on CCM's side in 1972 as BSA decided to sell
complete but disassembled B50 motors to CCM. No longer was it necessary to find used motors to be fitted into CCM bikes. This was a real breakthrough as BSA had never previously sold engines directly to anyone - not the Rickman Bros. nor Eric Cheney, who were the premier custom frame builders in England.

CCM undertook an extensive development program on the B50 motor resulting in greatly improved power, weight, and reliability. Developed by CCM were the special casting for the barrel, side cases, a four-valve head, improved ignition and lubrication systems and many variations of crankshafts with different weight and stroke length. One of the more controversial modifications made by Clews was mounting the foot pegs directly on the special CCM engines side case to reduce weight and allow for greater ground clearance. Despite reservation by even Clews, the foot peg was shown to fail before the case mounting system did. Even three speed gearboxes were developed to further lighten the bike and strengthen the gearbox by the use of wider gears. Strengthening the gear box was made possible by CCM's wide power band in the 600-cc version. Modification started with the first seven bikes and continued throughout the history of CCM. CCM's motors ranged in size from 500 to over 600 cc with horsepower from 45 to over 50!

Englishman John Banks narrowly missed winning the World Championship twice while on the BSA factory team. CCM thought that when John Banks signed on to race for CCM in 1974 that a world championship could be in their future. But it was not to be. Banks very considerable size and extremely punishing "sit down" riding style caused his CCM race bikes to fail in ways that would be unexpected. This fact was both a problem for CCM and at the same time compelled the factory to further increase development of the works and production bikes. As an example of how tough Banks was on equipment, his first races on CCM ended when the bars broke in half from John's punishment! The factory's intense development resulted in the 1974 1/2 CCM Works G. P. Replica.

The unrestored and barley ridden 1974 1/2 CCM Works G. P. Replica pictured here was very close to the CCM factory machine raced early in 1974. Sometimes referred to as a "John Banks Replica" this model incorporated the latest thinking of the factory. With its short stroke 500 cc motor and a claimed weight of around 220 lbs. this was as good a vintage era English four stroke as ever produced.

CCM never won a world championship but the company upheld the English four-stroke banner nearly to the end of the 1970's. The European two strokes were cheaper, faster and were more reliable but nothing in its day looked so good or sounded as good these booming four stroke MX bikes.



Specifications for CCM 1974 1/2 Works G. P. Replica
  • Grande Grix Motor with lightened internals
  • Wide power band means that multi-speed gearboxes are unnecessary, motor acts as third brake
  • New oil system incorporating full flow paper filter with pressure feed to rockers and cam
  • Long movement suspension coupled with hand cut tires gives superb handling in wet or dry conditions
  • The lightest/strongest frame in the world - has better welded joints than any other
  • Forks have elektron parts for high strength/weight ratio
  • Redesigned hubs in elektron alloy are lighter and stronger and are equipped with interchangeable brakes
  • Gearbox is selectively assembled for long life
  • New type impregnated foam air filter in easy access box
  • Light gauge high tensile steel rims are same weight as alloy but four times stronger
  • Machine can be ordered to suit rider weight
Engine
  • Four stroke single
  • Displacement 498cc
  • Bore and stroke 88 X 82
  • BHP 45
  • Comp. ratio 10.3 to 1
Frame
  • T45 TIG welded, chrome plated
  • Fuel tank Alloy 1.25 gal
  • Oil in frame - 5 pints
  • Rear dampers - Koni
  • Weight 100 kilo
  • Wheelbase 57.5 in
  • Approximate wheel travel
  • Front 8 1/2 inches
  • Rear 5 1/2 inches













Last edited by boondocker; 09-23-2008 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

That's a fine looking bike man. Dimensionally, that Yamaha's motor looks very close to that...Only without those badass ribbed case covers!
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Or you could ditch the four-stroke thing and jist go with the 1470cc Maico special! That'd make a heck of a chopper...




Last edited by boondocker; 09-23-2008 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Thanks! Yeah, I don't know if I could pull off sticking that Honda motor in an early Husky frame. I might be able to "disguise" it a bit, but it's really hard to compete with the excellent aesthetic design of that Husqvarna 2 stroke engine. I was hoping Husky made an aircooled 4-stroke to keep it all the same maker. Who knows where this is going to lead?

The Brit bike Desert Racer thing would be much easier to do I think, but I'm not as connected to those. These 2 ideas are pretty much all about nostalgia for me. I've been through it with Choppers, Gassers and front engine Fuelers...for me to really bust ass on something, I gotta LOVE it. It seems the only things I love THAT much are things I dug when I was 7! Maybe one of these days I'll pine for an '81 Camaro or chics who look like Pat Benatar, but ah, I doubt it. Although, the mid-eighties 900 Ninja's are looking pretty cool...Full fairing, dumped in the front, slightly longer Kosman swing-arm with a 200x20 rear, black w/stainless spoke rims, rigid struts, period V&H pipe and the stock red and black paint re-done in candy 'flake, original stickers an' all. I wonder how much that'd cost a brother? As a matter of fact, I'll bet there are at least 10 brothers rollin' around L.A. or Miami right now on this exact bike! They're ahead of the curve as usual....

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Old 09-25-2008, 12:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Husky for ya.... Just for ideas.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

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Originally Posted by Basementchoppers View Post
Husky for ya.... Just for ideas.
Looks like there's plenty of room in there for just about anything. Maybe even a small block chevy. I dig that Honda too. Short, stubby...8 million m.p.g.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

The Ol' man use to run his Greeves on the street in the late 60's .. Added a tinny ooga horn a lucas tail light running to a ct70 size battery in a small aluminum box.
The battery was run on total loss. It actually run the tail light for quiet awhile.

He never ran a headlight because he wasn't planning to ride at night. I guess in Cali at the time as long as you weren't out at night, no big deal ...

I still have her, and she's still plated .. been kicking around getting the tags current and having some fun ...
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:54 AM   #22
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Just picked up an early Husky CR400 frame and I'm sourcing the engine. The Honda XRs have the drive on the left, and ideally I'd like to run a current air-cooled, 4-stroke single with a charging system and the chain drive on the RIGHT. What new dual-sport bike has that?

I may still go with the Honda XR drivetrain. I'm looking for a damaged and empty set of junk cases, cylinder and head to use for mock-up.

If anyone knows anything or has suggestions please e-mail me at theconderosa@hotmail.com or call - (707) 843-9454 - Thanks
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: McQueen/Smith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Benway View Post
Sorta related, I think I had the same thing in mind (commuter Sportster with some race flair). Still under construction while fulfilling it's intended function...





perfection as is.
hope you don't touch it.

wicked bike.
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