On thread closures, deletions, and being 'on-topic'...

[Dragon]

I have taken the liberty of copying some posts to make up this topic, these are from a long HAMB thread about closing condolence-threads over there.

But they very much apply to and mirror our principles and guidelines here, as to off-topic and other personal posts on the main board, and to our Classifieds operations. Just subsitute "bikes" where they say "cars".


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posts by Ryan -

"Now, this post might seem defensive. It is... Because this place is personal to me. And as the guy that has ran the joint for a decade, I can tell you that it has done nothing but gotten better as a hot rod site. Just in the last month, we've had more important posts than this site had in it's first 5 years of existence. If people don't recognize those posts, maybe it's time for those folks to find another site.

My goal is not to build a place where a guy can find an excuse to "straight talk" or "put someone in their place". My goal is to build a site where people can talk about hot rods and customs. Frankly, I don't care too much about the other stuff.

If you do, this probably isn't the place for you.

If you don't like our direction, move on... Life is too short."

"I see it as a 50/50 problem:

50% - Some people just need to shut their pie holes. They need to stop complaining and post productively (rather than negatively) or leave. That's a real issue and one that's hard to grasp.

50% - I need to do a better job of catching posts that cause legitimate complaints and delete them without causing too much collateral damage.

In the end, this has always been a weekness of mine. I'm sick. Seriously. SICK. All I really care to read about is cars. I don't care to read some guy's diatribe about how things aren't right just the same as I don't really care to read about some guy's neighbor that just passed away. To me, that time is wasted when I could be reading or writing some of the pretty darn good content we have here.

It's a choice that we all have to make for ourselves I guess. I chose to read about cars and pretty much ignore everything else. Others like to get involved in other areas... Those "others" will never be satisfied with the hamb."

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post by Rashy, Classifieds moderator -

"I find it interesting that most of the people who complain are the same people who have little respect for the rules and want to bust our balls when they are treated like everyone else when they break a rule.

I'll admit I've become a WHOLE lot more "don't rock the boat-ish". And I'll tell you why.

Back in the day when there were 1,000 members it was easy to police this place and those members TOOK THE TIME to figure out the ins and outs of the joint. 10,000 members it got a little harder. It's a numbers game and more rules would get broken. Some members could understand and take the rules to heart and move on. Others had to really stir it up and waste a bunch of our time. Time I'd rather be spending doing something else. (don't get me wrong, if you need help with ANYTHING I am on it. If you want to bust my balls, you're barking up the wrong tree)

So, now that we have 40K plus members there is an overwhelming number of people who don't care/know/take the time to find out what made this place what it is today.

No way we can educate them all. They have to do it for themselves.



I'll tell you one thing that has gone way down since I came on board. Members policing members. We don't allow it in the classifieds because it causes too many other problems but a WELL THOUGHT OUT AND WELL WORDED reply to a post on the main board can make or break a new guy who just might have more to teach than we know..."


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**note this one is re closing "R.I.P." threads, when it's not re a member or a motorcycling icon, but a friend of a member, and/or who no one here knows.

post by Metalshapes, moderator -

"As one of the Mods that Closes these Threads now, I can tell you that we struggle with these things.
Because of the terrible situations people suffer with.

And we Close them instead of Deleting them so the other users still can find them and send P/Ms if they want.

I can honestly tell you that Closing these threads is not a pleasant task, but we have agreed to do this because there were just too many of them.

Not everybody will agree with why these Threads are being closed.

But we dont do this out of Callousness..."

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post by CorncobCoupe, Classifieds moderator -

"40,000 + members and be realistic about this guys that there is no way everyone is going to be happy with how or why things are done here.

Maybe sharing with you that as Moderators before anything gets closed or deleted we discuss with fellow Moderators if we should, or should not close anything unless it is plain as day obnoxious or off the wall.


Cars are what binds us all together.
Do we like to here someones life has been altered through tragic events etc. ?
No - we as moderators are saddened by it but with 40,000 members everyones life here has daily challenges and it would take over the focus from cars to people.

Does that make us cold hearted ?
To some yes - but 99% are here for the cars - lets be honest.

If everyone shared their daily struggles with life, it would over take the HAMB, plain and simple.

All of you have a choice to open a thread or not -

Make it what you want to make it, but lets just keep in mind that this is a
Old Hot Rod and Custom Car Web site and the focus is sharing cars.

Some times we close or delete threads - that's just the way it is."

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http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...6051&showall=1

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[Dragon]

And then, there's the 'dead horse' syndrome, where a thread continues or is brought back from the cobwebs, with the topic question answered and re-answered the same way and/or the same points made/repeated ad nauseum........it's counterproductive for such a thread to keep floating atop the page.

[=mike=]

There aren't too many real issues to resolve here . It's a free message board and for the most part , if something is off topic it will be deleted . There are exceptions in both directions , but posting a link to a shitty bike on craigslist , just so everyone can trip out on why it's so shitty or costs so mush , is dumb and notg what this board is here for .

Likewise any thread that is obviously " worthless " , is exactly that and will again more than likely be deleted .

Useless threads don't " just die " either .

Unfortunately they drag on and on and float to the surface over and over so someone else can get in on it and proclaim " that shit sucks " or " man that's fucking dumb " or some other sparkling gem like that .

In turn , that ends up eating up bandwidth , boring the shit out of everyone , and ultimately wasting Ryan's money , which is what lets us all be here in the first place .

He's told all of the moderators ( myself included ) what to look out for , and what to do when things start to go a certain way . Sometimes the first post is all we need to read to see where something is going , sometimes threads take a nasty turn and end up eating shit later than we would have predicted .

Regardless , the idea that there is " too much moderation , too quickly " is as far from correct as it could be . There have been more useful , on topic , constructive and interesting threads lately than ever , since the inception of this forum . . . and it has been steadily getting better due in no small part to the efforts of the people who are trying to keep this train on it's rails .

After all , Back Talk is a click away , if you feel like you just have to vent about the latest doo-rag , or skull customs dark horse harley barge , or how much R.U.B.S. suck . . . Ryan is trying to have an informative and very technical database / forum to help with things like building , maintaining , and riding a certain style of motorcycle . That doesn't mean that the occasional goof doesn't happen , but seriously , it's pretty simple .

[Dragon]

And, for those who cannot or will not resist posting the stupid ebay/craigs bike links, just put them on the Ugly and Funny Bike Thread .

With a little effort it's easy to copy/post the pix too, here's directions - http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s...&postcount=173

[Dragon]

Again, this site's focus is upon building custom and vintage motorcycles.


New and upcoming TV serieses about (supposedly) "1%" biker drama are as off-topic here as new-Harley "dark customs" and "secret handshakes" and debates about the price of gas.

Instead of creating or keeping these type threads floating at the top just to mock them, how about posting something you built or are building ??



The vintage biker movies from the '60s are a different thing, and there are existing threads about them.

[Dragon]

Another recurring type of threads that are taken down, is the "What's it worth?".

Ryan has told us many times he does not want a "sales site". So, the Classifieds and Vendor boards are closely regulated, and general sales or solicitation posts are kept off the Board.


But, as those who have been here awhile will notice, discussions of current values or even purchasing problems on ebay or Craigs or with Paypal have always been removed.

The focus here is about the bike, the building process, the history, the culture.


If you really need a market survey to consider some purchase, learn to search completed ebay listings, or do some other online searching.

[mad750]

THIS ISN'T A STICKY YET!!! Condense and stick this since it's important.

[Dragon]

Sticky-ing makes a thread completely invisible and unreadable.

So, it's time for another bump.


Basic principles behind basic policy.

[concrete guy]

IMHO I think you MODS have done a fairly good job. I have had threads closed-- some deleted as they should have been. Now to the other end of the spectrum---Don't apologize, don't hesitate and just plain kill. Cull some of the pups in the litter! Ohhhh the life of being a MOD

[=mike=]

Thanks man , it's not as glamorus as everyone thinks !

[Seventhirteen]

working on getting those .01% patches done

the official outlaw online moderator badge

[=mike=]

Jimmy of all the stuff you could be posting to and all the amazing threads that are already going , you picked this one to come make jokes in ?

Someone goes out of their way to let us know that they think we're doing a good job and you show up to try and piss Dragon off .

Don't you have Mikey's welds to fix or something ?

[Fredo]

I've seen Mikey's welds and you're right. Jimmy has a LOT of work ahead of him...

[docstrange]

Originally Posted by concrete guy

IMHO I think you MODS have done a fairly good job. I have had threads closed-- some deleted as they should have been. Now to the other end of the spectrum---Don't apologize, don't hesitate and just plain kill. Cull some of the pups in the litter! Ohhhh the life of being a MOD

illl agree here.. im on a couple other forums(ie vw vortex, evom.net)
and the ridiculous shit that peeple come up with cloud both of those forums and ruin it...its nothing but.. look at me,,, hey are you looking at me im over here..take pics of my car threads.. i dont see any of that shit here... i applaude keeping things in check

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by mpls|cafe|racer

'

Tell you what Dragon, I'll make a personal request of YOU then.... spend some time actually checking my posts. Many of them ARE on topic and technical.

I have. Many of them are.

The ones that are incendiary, are made only to create drame re Ryan's July policy re content, those are the only posts at issue.

Nothing personal, it goes for anyone (and for any intros posting only pics and discussion of the new member's jap bikes).

It's really a basic priciple, most get it.


Thank you for your understanding and participation.

[mpls|cafe|racer]

Originally Posted by Dragon

I have. Many of them are.

The ones that are incendiary, are made only to create drame re Ryan's July policy re content, those are the only posts at issue.

Nothing personal, it goes for anyone (and for any intros posting only pics and discussion of the new member's jap bikes).

It's really a basic priciple, most get it.


Thank you for your understanding and participation.

I've discussed it with Ryan, and will continue to just ask him if I have questions on policy.

I am just a little offended by the over exaggeration by you that all my posts cause trouble. I think it's related to past issues you've had with me, and I think it's a little lame.

Anyhow, thanks for the reply.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by mpls|cafe|racer

I've discussed it with Ryan, and will continue to just ask him if I have questions on policy.

I am just a little offended by the over exaggeration by you that all my posts cause trouble. I think it's related to past issues you've had with me, and I think it's a little lame.

Anyhow, thanks for the reply.

Like I said, we will try to do better. In the mean time, enjoy the forum for what it is.

Thanks,

R.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by heyitsnate

it's disrespectful for a moderator to delete my thread and not pm me with a reason why. i take it personally,and i'm tired of it.

FYI, it was not a moderator who took yours down, it was an Administrator.

What's "tiring" is deleting dozens of posts and threads every day in the Classifieds because people dont care to read or choose to disregard the clearly-posted rules.

And we dont have nor take time to make personal PM-notification of every action. That's not being disrespectul, but disregarding plainly-stated rules in conspicuous "Sticky" posts, and then throwing a tantrum over it, is.

Classifieds is for individuals' used parts. Multiple sales of new or production parts like posters, tshirts, jobs by painters/stripers are considered commercial, and go in Jock Shops.

Originally Posted by el Shanebo

You can only sell posters of OTHER peoples builds......duh.

More "duh" (if that means been repeated here ad nauseum), that everyone should know by now...

1) Questions about how the board works or policy go on the "Questions" board.

2) Ryan's words: "We want a tech-oriented board, not a marketplace". I.E. No spam or biz-related posts on the Board. "Where do I buy" and "What's this worth" are pushing things.
We are lucky to have the Classifieds, even more so a free-to-use separate venue for vendor-members.

3) Use the Classifieds, Jock Shops for their intended purposes. But read and adhere to the rules, clearly posted on each.

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[fuelrod]

For what it's worth-
I'm a new guy here, and was at first a little surprised about the aggressive approach the mods take to off-topic posts. However, after a split-second of thought, any distaste for the moderators' methods is gone. Here's why:

1. This is not my first time on the internet. I have seen so many other boards become overrun by jackasses who have way too much time on their hands, and live to break balls and disrupt purpose built forums like this one. It WILL happen, and it drives me nuts. Ultimately, it prevents people from submitting useful content, and really undermines the purpose of the board.

2. It takes a TREMENDOUS amount of work to manage a board like this. I provide exactly 0% of the support required to maintain this site. It's not my board. If I don't like it, I can start my own site with my own rules. No one is forcing me to stay.

Just my $.02

[Dragon]

The number of "shopping" posts, and then drama following deleting them, continues.

It has been said too many times....the Admins here want "a tech board not a marketplace".

Say someone posts "where can I buy _____ (part/helmet) and what should it cost?"

And we plug that into Google and instantly get a page full of sellers and prices......guess what that poster should have done, rather than re-posting 2,3 times then a drama-spewing "WTF" post afterward.....?


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