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Old 04-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #21
shoveljunky
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Great info. Finished building an 81 shovel with belt drive and having same issues. So it may have been old spots but still helpful. Thanx
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:55 PM   #22
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I can't seem to find one of those starter shaft gears with the 1/4" offset like in the previous photo. Does anyone know where to get one?
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Old 10-18-2015, 06:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

OEM 31429-67
j&p 3800100
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:35 PM   #24
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Thank you so so so much! I guess I wasn't finding it because its listed for sportster. Again thanks.
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Old 10-18-2015, 07:37 PM   #25
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And thank you Supersonictoys for your post. That is good info for anyone tackling this particular issue.
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

I haven't posted much but I find discussions like this very helpful. I'm having the opposite problem. Every time I hook the battery up, the starter spins. Since I have been through the new solenoid, charged battery, new starter, the best I can figure the solenoid is not fully closing when disengaged from the ring gear. I can manually move the fork to engage and disengage from the ring gear without it hanging up.

I have an 82 FXWG that I am putting together from a pile of parts. I do know the inner primary is not the original.

Any recommendations or additional places I can look for info? I'd rather not put on a manual solenoid if I can avoid it.

Thanks
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Seems to me that I have had that problem before, and I believe the cure was that the main wires were hooked up in reverse. Not sure what system you have, but if you don't have the plunger spring in the plunger on a stock system, they do similar things, since they can't completely return the plunger.

And then, maybe I am not understanding your problem.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Springs are in correct or at least how the manual says they should be. When you say main wires, what are you referring to?
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Solenoid long stud goes to battery or relay from battery.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Got that correct, thanks.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:32 AM   #31
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Are you sure the inner primary is the correct one, and the starter jackshaft?? The last few years of Shovelheads, the inner primary was different, not sure what year they changed. And, there are three or four different jackshafts available. Some photos would be priceless, like the selinoid you are using, the casting numbers on the inner primary, jackshaft and associated parts.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:52 PM   #32
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Shovithead- I appreciate your time and knowledge. I'll see if I can carve out some time this weekend to get back in to this project, take some pics and sort out this issue. Its been too long off the road.
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:43 AM   #33
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

I am in no bigger hurry than you are. So when you get time, do what you can. There are so many possible combinations to confuse things, so it could be something as simple as a missing thrust washer, to the wrong inner primary, or starter housing/etc. Even if it is not me that gets it in the end, it will be somebody. Just don't give up.
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:39 PM   #34
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Glad to see this thread is still going.

My starter problem still isnt solved.

Seems that Ive got all the mechanical issues ironed out but the kickback on the compression stroke is causing my primary drive belt to strip off teeth and eventually snap. I have a pretty good battery, and have retarted the timing a little but suppose I can retard it even more. Every time I retard, I loose a little power. Im running a Dyna S point-less ignition with centrifigul advance weights

Happens usually when bike is warmed up or hot after a short stop like fillup of gas. the starter will crank once then the kickback occurs causing a horrific screaching sound which i have duduced to be the starter clutch (bendix?). Apparently that starter clutch takes the brunt but puts a tremendous strain on the starter pinion and other Parts too. Its a new Accell starter clutch to boot.

It doesnt do the kick back every time, but when the motor well warmed up, it will kick back about 1 out of every 5 starts. Im wondering if sticking advance weights might be contributing.

For years I never had the problem..Would always start like a champ.

Last edited by hotrodjohn71; 01-03-2017 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:20 PM   #35
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Per ShovitHead's suggestion and renewed enthusiasm to get my shovel back on the road here are a few pics and of course some more questions.

I did not see a Harley casting number on my inner primary, but found the markings on the pics attached. I'm pretty sure this is not a Harley primary, any suggestions to the manufacturer?

Also after some more poking around, I found that the channel that holds the pins of the starter drive lever is sitting flush with the primary. I believe that is not allowing the jackshaft to retract fully and holding the solenoid open.

I figure I either I find a jack shaft that will work with my inner primary or the correct inner primary. I'm also open to other suggestions.

As for parts, I have an Accel solenoid, JP Cycles solenoid plunger hardware kit and starter drive lever, the jackshaft is the original, I believe.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

After confirming Shovithead's comments, looking at my parts manual, the inner primaries are different for the 1980 and up FXWGs

So my question is how can I tell if an inner primary is correct?
What in the casting number should I look for to make sure it is for an FXWG vs FX, FXE, etc?

I've asked a few questions of the sellers of primaries on Ebay and not much help, other than it fits a shovelhead.

I apologize if this seems elementary, this is my first crack at a basket case. I appreciate any knowledge shared.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:09 AM   #37
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I have my 78 Shovel apart right now but may have mocked up this weekend where I can measure. I'm building up a 5 speed in a 4 spd. case to replace my worn out and case cracked 4 speed.
Right off the bat sumpin in your pic grabs me:
The nut on the end is stopping your starter drive from getting a bite. It looks to me like it is stopping the movement of the drive far too shallow. The movement of the shaft is negligible so the shaft and nut has to be long enough NOT inhibit full engagement. Another thing that looks weird is that big cavity or passage in the top of the chaincase, not typical Shovelhead fare.
Do you have the Hitachi, or the Prestolite style starter?
One thing you can do is take the primary and lay it face up and drop your jackshaft in there and measure the elevation (or lack of), the drive gear front face, from the gasket surface then install the the jackshaft in its static position in the inner primary, thru the starter gear and engaged into the starter with all nuts and bolts snugged. They should be about the gasket thickness apart in their position. Also, you can look closely at the teeth of the drive for the wear pattern, and they should have about 70% of the drive tooth depth engaged.
Sumpn just doesn't look right.
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:43 AM   #38
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodjohn71 View Post
Glad to see this thread is still going.

My starter problem still isnt solved.

Seems that Ive got all the mechanical issues ironed out but the kickback on the compression stroke is causing my primary drive belt to strip off teeth and eventually snap. I have a pretty good battery, and have retarted the timing a little but suppose I can retard it even more. Every time I retard, I loose a little power. Im running a Dyna S point-less ignition with centrifigul advance weights

Happens usually when bike is warmed up or hot after a short stop like fillup of gas. the starter will crank once then the kickback occurs causing a horrific screaching sound which i have duduced to be the starter clutch (bendix?). Apparently that starter clutch takes the brunt but puts a tremendous strain on the starter pinion and other Parts too. Its a new Accell starter clutch to boot.

It doesnt do the kick back every time, but when the motor well warmed up, it will kick back about 1 out of every 5 starts. Im wondering if sticking advance weights might be contributing.

For years I never had the problem..Would always start like a champ.

Sounds like you have it diagnoised yourself, with the advance unit. Pull it out, and see how much play you have in the pivot pins, and if both spring pins are present and not bent(the little ones, one sets the advance against the cam, the other makes sure the cam is in the correct position, to keep the small point as the front cylinder), and that the springs are able to completely close(so that each wind has on clearance between). I always apply a good quality, sticky grease to the pivots and on the advance point shaft.

Not sure how you are timing it, but as you do, make sure you read the plugs, so you don't get it to far advanced, and hurt the motor bad. I retard mine about the width of the timing hole, which gives about 2 to 3 degrees of retard, if you put the timing mark on the LH side of the opening.
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72 Chevy C30 truck
73 Custom Shovel
72 XLH
70 XLH
69 XLH
68 XLCH *project*
66 FLH *Daily Rider*
66 Shovel/Pan/Pan
65 XLCH *project*
60 XLCH Doc Dytch*project*
51 FL *project*
42 UL*project*
Non Dated, S&S Panhead with 65 swingarm *project*
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:55 AM   #39
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMXB View Post
After confirming Shovithead's comments, looking at my parts manual, the inner primaries are different for the 1980 and up FXWGs

So my question is how can I tell if an inner primary is correct?
What in the casting number should I look for to make sure it is for an FXWG vs FX, FXE, etc?

I've asked a few questions of the sellers of primaries on Ebay and not much help, other than it fits a shovelhead.

I apologize if this seems elementary, this is my first crack at a basket case. I appreciate any knowledge shared.
First, the end of the jackshaft looks like it was stored in a bucket of rust. My first rule when working on the inside of any mechanical part, clean, clean, clean, until your fingerprints are smooth. Then put together. But, all joking aside(even if I am serious about being surgically clean inside), if the rest of the starter parts are that dirty, it could be half the problem. Or not.

Put the inner primary(which could, or may not be the problem) together like you were ready to install the outer primary cover. Take a straight edge(ruler, or anything that is straight and about a foot or so long) and lay it across the inner primary, letting it hover above or next to the jackshaft, to see how far away the shoulder on the end of the jackshaft is from the edge of the primary, or how far out it sticks. Write down that measurement. Now, take the outer primary, and see where the jackshaft plugs into the bearing, it will either be flat across the gasket area, or set back away from the gasket area. Write down that measurement, either flat or recessed. There should be a large bronze thrust washer that goes on the jackshaft plug end. Allow for that thickness. Now, with some math, you should be able to see if the jackshaft fits into the bearing correctly, or to short, or long. Also, note where the teeth of the Bendix are in relation to the ring gear on the clutch hub. As long as it is close, but clears a minimum of 1/8 inch, it is in the correct position.

Pull the jackshaft and make some photos of it, along with a measurement end to end.
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72 Chevy C30 truck
73 Custom Shovel
72 XLH
70 XLH
69 XLH
68 XLCH *project*
66 FLH *Daily Rider*
66 Shovel/Pan/Pan
65 XLCH *project*
60 XLCH Doc Dytch*project*
51 FL *project*
42 UL*project*
Non Dated, S&S Panhead with 65 swingarm *project*
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:14 AM   #40
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Last picture in post 35. How come you have the spring on the wrong side of the lever?
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