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Old 05-01-2008, 10:36 AM   #1
KustomZ
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Default Starter Jackshaft problem

I am working on a 76 shovelhead with an aftermarket outer primary cover. I have had starter issues for quite some time and decided to take a little time and fix it finally. I noticed with the primary cover on that the thrust washer on the end of the shaft had a pretty good gap from the shoulder on the shaft to the primary cover and decided to do a little measuring. The only thing engaging in the primary cover bearing is the pinion nut which is .040" diameter undersize and only engaging in the bearing .025". My question is has anyone else run into this? I am wondering if it would hurt anything to make an extended nut that will fix the problem or anyone makes the parts to fix the problem? Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:29 AM   #2
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

It might help if you were able to post a pic.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

I will get a pic posted tomorrow and try to explain it better.
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:20 AM   #4
Tha Nutz
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

You do realize that mean you hit the starter button, the starter solenoid pushes the jackshaft forward quite a ways, right? So the shaft sitting in a static position is not where the jackshaft actuates the starter ring gear.

If it's making a grinding noise when you hit the button, it is probably a fucked up jackshaft.

Pics would help.

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I am working on a 76 shovelhead with an aftermarket outer primary cover. I have had starter issues for quite some time and decided to take a little time and fix it finally. I noticed with the primary cover on that the thrust washer on the end of the shaft had a pretty good gap from the shoulder on the shaft to the primary cover and decided to do a little measuring. The only thing engaging in the primary cover bearing is the pinion nut which is .040" diameter undersize and only engaging in the bearing .025". My question is has anyone else run into this? I am wondering if it would hurt anything to make an extended nut that will fix the problem or anyone makes the parts to fix the problem? Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

When you hit the starter button the starter drive should advance on the shaft. If the shaft moves much it is going to disengage from the starter motor.
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:37 AM   #6
Tha Nutz
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

It's limited in it's travel by that semi-circular arm that holds it in. As long as the cover is on, there would be no way to have the shaft push far enough out to fall out.

One other thing to consider is that the thrust washer that goes between the bearing in the outside cover and the shaft is not supposed to be there on all years of the e-start shovel. I can't remember which years, but I have seen different blow-up diagrams of the shovel starter that had and didn't have that washer on the end.

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When you hit the starter button the starter drive should advance on the shaft. If the shaft moves much it is going to disengage from the starter motor.
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Old 05-02-2008, 10:08 AM   #7
Scott McKelvey
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

just a thought, but i think the 65-69 starter shaft is shorter than the 70-84, which, if the 65-69 shaft is in the later primary, it might be like what you are describing. I had some questions about this on another board (http://www.network54.com/Forum/47850...imary+on+65-69) , but I still haven't gotten around to making the swap, so.........
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

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Originally Posted by Scott McKelvey View Post
just a thought, but i think the 65-69 starter shaft is shorter than the 70-84, which, if the 65-69 shaft is in the later primary, it might be like what you are describing. I had some questions about this on another board (http://www.network54.com/Forum/47850...imary+on+65-69) , but I still haven't gotten around to making the swap, so.........

Okay I haven't even thought about it being the wrong shaft, but that would make sense. Anyone got any measurements from either style of shaft for comparison?
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

I have been searching for some dimensions on the shafts with no luck. Anyone have info on this?
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Old 05-19-2008, 03:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Ok got a new shaft and it's the same as what I already have. So I know I have the right shaft. When I hit the starter button the starter spins, but doesn't engage enough to spin the motor. I have posted a pic to try and show my problem. In the pic the bushing the arrow points to looks to me like it sits in too far leaving less than an 1/8" of ring gear exposed for the starter drive to engage. Before I owned the bike it had a primary belt drive installed and what I'm wondering is if the pulley on the clutch basket makes the ring gear sit out further causing my problem. Anyone ever deal with an aftermarket belt drive? Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-19-2008, 04:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

H-D did some mod to the Cover for the FXB check your casting #'s and see what you got.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:14 AM   #12
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Hi Guys. I'm having the same problem that KustomZ is having. My starter jack shaft looks exactly like the one he has in the photo.

I have a 77 FX superglide. It came with an open primary setup. I wanted to install electric start so I got an inner primary case from CCI (28-063) and an electric start kit from V-Twin MFG (32-0007) and a belt drive clutch shell that runs a BDL 30853ST (1.5")belt.

The end result is exactly like Kustomz's photo. There is approx 1/4" end play in the starter jackshaft. But even if I shim up the end play with thrust washers (outer cover jackshaft thrust washer 31502-65) It still wont fix the problem of the jackshaft end nut being right on top of the clutch shell ring gear.

The end result of this setup is starter gears and clutch ring gears getting ruined over time. Can anyone offer up any suggestions?
Thank you in advance
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #13
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

The 70 and up shaft is 7" and I can't find my 69 and down shaft but its about 3/4 shorter,in the pic.the cover on the left is 69 down,right is 70 and up,as you can see the bearing support is way differant and as for the shaft moving out,that should'nt move out at all,just the starter drive on the shaft to engage the ring....yours looks short to me,that hope that helps....
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

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Originally Posted by Greenbikemike View Post
The 70 and up shaft is 7" and I can't find my 69 and down shaft but its about 3/4 shorter,in the pic.the cover on the left is 69 down,right is 70 and up,as you can see the bearing support is way differant and as for the shaft moving out,that should'nt move out at all,just the starter drive on the shaft to engage the ring....hope that helps....
GBM
Also the later Belt Drive Primary's was diff. in that area.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

The started gear can't slide out far enough to engage the basket,so either the shaft is wrong or nut [or spacer,left hand BTW] is.....I come up with 2 part numbers for that 31531 is 65-82,31311 is 83 up...don't know if that helps or not...
GBM

Also,make sure you disconnect the battery,it WILL bite you....earth disconnect switch comes is handy for shovels,highly recommended
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Thanks Green. I am aware of the differences in the outter cases. Thanks for posting the photo. First off, it appears that my starter jackshaft is too short, but it is the longer 31482-70 70-84. But I dont see an option anywhere for a longer shaft to gt that nut over far enough to allow the bendix gear to engage.

So im looking at diagrams of the later shovelhead starter setup. The one used for the sturgis belt drive models, 82-84 FLH, and 80-84 FXSB. This as a different system with a different jackshaft, starter houing and nut. There are a couple components that still interchange with the older setup.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

Thanks Green for those part #'s. The first # is the one that came with my kit, the nuts-pacer all in one. The second is the spacer (without nut) for thee later style electric start setup I described above.
Another facit of this issue it the throw of the bendix from the soleniod. If you look closely at KustomZ's photo, you will see the bendix sitting far back from the ring gear.
I wonder If I did move the shaft nut out farther if the solenoid would be over extending the bendix gear, and not be able to pull it back, or it become in a bind.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

According to my research, there are 4. 65 to 69, 70 to 84, and the belt drive one, from 80 to 85, and the last, is 80 to 85 FLT. There is also two different starter motor setups, and either can be made to fit. One sits further away from the inner primary, which would make your shaft short, even if it is the correct length for your year bike. The shaft should sit only a few thousants from tight, with the thrust washer in place. The bendix sits far enough behind the ring gear for clearance, and the thrust washer keeps the shaft from disengaging the drive gear and ruining your day with a exploded housing. If the shaft has to much end play, and it allows the bendix to "bottom out" against the ring gear, it will most likely hangup and not disengage at all or until you rev the motor. I am not pushing any one AM company, but JP has a great tech help section.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

I know this is an old post but i saw what these guys were going through while i was researching my own starter to ring gear engagement issue and realized they had the same problem I was having. the stopper for the starter clutch was sitting right over the ring gear and not allowing the bendix gear to engage the ring gear enough..its almost like the starter jack shaft is about 1/4 inch to short. I would blow teeth off my ring gear even though all the parts seemed right and I had the 7' longest starter jack shaft. this problem may be from a mix match of parts, different transmission with slightly longer output shaft, wrong inner primary, who knows. I actually made the same tiny spacer that one of the guys in this post made out of a 5/16 socket which would fit under the starter clutch stopper on the end of the starter shaft but realized that once this spacer was installed i was weakening another area. there was only about 3/16 of the starter shafts splines engaged in the starter clutch when the clutch was all the way out under load and in the ring gear cranking which couldn't last long. I was tired of thinking of ways to space everything out further and making it last when I found a starter housing gear with a 1/4 inch step on one side of it that fixed all my problems. dont know what model bike it was from but I have now purchased 2 of them on ebay and they were listed as shovelhead FL/FX OEM starter gears. in the pic i have attached you can see the difference between the standard flat looking starter gear and the one with the 1/4 raised area. this little extra 1/4 inch when added to the 1/8 or so of engagement I already had put my benix gear almost all the way across the ring gear. if you find one, install it with the raised area out toward the ring gear. installing it backwards would make the starter gear and the tiny gear on the end of the starter no have enough engagement. again, I know this is an old post but I was hoping this info might help someone else who is having this same problem. the trick I guess is finding the gear. maybe print a picture and ask a few shops? or just search ebay ? good luck
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Starter Jackshaft problem

More info, is better than less info. So it will help those of us that see this thread. Seems that I have seen those offset gears before, but never had one in a bike. It is the small stuff, that makes this site what it is.
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