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Old 05-10-2017, 12:55 PM   #1
rhysmort
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Default Decel wobble around 50MPH

Hi all,

take away the obvious, neck bearings, top nut etc, is there anything that would cause this? I have a OEM springer, 21 spool. It's absolutely fine but coming off the throttle over 50 I get a mild wobble, it's not horrid like throw you off tampin speed wobble.. but if I can stop it I'd obviously like to.

Avon speedmaster 2 on the front, 21 PSI, spool hub, oem springer etc.

Thanks!
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

21psi is too low....should be somewhere between 32psi-35psi,... & get it balanced, it works wonders
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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Originally Posted by magnum45pete View Post
21psi is too low....should be somewhere between 32psi-35psi,... & get it balanced, it works wonders
I wondered if it needed a balance Pete.

No problem I'll give it a try. Being a jockey shift wobbles at high speed aren't my favourite!

Rhys
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Old 05-10-2017, 04:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

What Pete says rhys...and take a look at the rear wheel as well. Many wobbles are caused from the rear as well especially the old let off the gas and get a bit of shake type wobble. The drive chain loads the wheel and bearings one way and then when you let off the throttle any play in the rear causes it to shake and shutter. Wheels should really be balanced and check your rims for run out too. As for the neck bearings...did you check 'em? - Dave
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Check tire pressure on the rear too. Too little can make the front woggle.
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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Originally Posted by DoggyDaddy View Post
What Pete says rhys...and take a look at the rear wheel as well. Many wobbles are caused from the rear as well especially the old let off the gas and get a bit of shake type wobble. The drive chain loads the wheel and bearings one way and then when you let off the throttle any play in the rear causes it to shake and shutter. Wheels should really be balanced and check your rims for run out too. As for the neck bearings...did you check 'em? - Dave
I've just had my rear respoked by the local top guy so I know that's out of the question. I've put air in my front tyre, running as cross ply rear and have about 18 lbs in it! maybe need to put that up more!
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

But you don't want to go to high on tyre pressure as being a hard tail you'll feel every little rock on the road.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Good grief. Eighteen pounds seems terribly, waddlingly low. I'd try 25, 26 at least.
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Old 05-11-2017, 03:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I ran a hardtail triumph chops 16x5 rear tire at 10 psi for years with no handling problems above what you would expect for a 10" over tele front end !
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Old 05-11-2017, 06:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

14 on my rear 16x5 avon sm mkII
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I'm thinking the Pan manual say's 16 for single 150# rider and add 2 for each additional 50. I'll look again too be sure.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Rhys is talking about his FRONT tyre, a skinny 21 with only 21psi in it,
far too low, needs to be 32psi-35psi.........only time I had 21psi in a front tyre was when it had a Puncture,.....
the rear can be anywhere from 12psi up, depending on what tyre is fitted

............................& CHECK YOUR TYRE PRESSURES WEEKLY, LESS YOU WANT TO KILL SOMEONE OR BE KILLED YASELF !!......................TAKS LESS THAN 30 SECONDS TO DO
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I run 23psi front and 26psi rear.

both avon MKII tyres, 16 rear, 21 front.. seems alright.
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Old 05-11-2017, 11:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I've put some air in the front, I have 18 in my rear it's a 5.5" cross ply Firestone.

Once I get a dry day I'll try again. It may be the front wheel needs a balance. Checked last night there's a definite heavy spot.

thanks all!
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

rhys - The decel wobble....has your bike done this since you got it or is it something new? When it does this does it feel like the front is shakin' or what? You mentioned it being an issue while one hand is on your shifter....you feel the bars shakin' back n' forth with your other hand? - Dave.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggyDaddy View Post
rhys - The decel wobble....has your bike done this since you got it or is it something new? When it does this does it feel like the front is shakin' or what? You mentioned it being an issue while one hand is on your shifter....you feel the bars shakin' back n' forth with your other hand? - Dave.
Dave,

It doesn't occur to I'd say over 50 mph.. I can't remember if it's always been there to be honest, but other than the actual front wheel I've changed everything else! It's like a slight tamping through the bars, a small wobble, it's not like a speed wobble where it tamps out of control.. and it's only on decel. Happens with both hands on the bars.. I think it could be balancing.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Forgive me if this is unhelpful -- I know you said you'd been through everything -- but on a BMW that'd be a pretty sure sign that the races were adjusted too loose. It don't take much.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I was wondering anout bearings meeself.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:49 AM   #19
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
I was wondering anout bearings meeself.
I've put 30 PSI in my front and it's a lot less. Brandt it has new bearings, being a spool they're old style not timkin.

maybe worth putting the castle nut up another 1/4 turn..
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Or an eighth. Like I said, it don't take much adjustment to achieve strong (good or bad) results.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

decel wobble in my 76 swingarm just needed snugging the neck a touch. Forget the book, do it till its too tight then back off a frog hair.

Swingarm bearings need to be right too but obviously that's not the OP's issue.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Hey Rhys. You say the rear was recently worked? Could it be your rear wheel isn't 100% in line with the chassis? Or maybe the axle bearings a bit loose? A lot of "front end" problems can be attributed minor ass-end wonkiness.
Is it bar shake, or more of a weave? A weave would have me taking a long hard look at the rear end.
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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Hey Rhys. You say the rear was recently worked? Could it be your rear wheel isn't 100% in line with the chassis? Or maybe the axle bearings a bit loose? A lot of "front end" problems can be attributed minor ass-end wonkiness.
Is it bar shake, or more of a weave? A weave would have me taking a long hard look at the rear end.
Hey dude!

no it's tamping it's a wobble, a weave I had which was my rear wheel, and then I had it redone by a guy who does race bikes. I've put more air in my front wheel and it's lessened it. I think the bearings may need a little more snug or it could be as mentioned the neck. But I don't think so.. so many variables!!
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:21 AM   #24
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH



This is from early '70s. Pressures may be better using FX numbers as it has a smaller front tire and lower pressure than running a 16" tire

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Old 05-13-2017, 10:54 AM   #25
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Twenty-six looks a lot more like it to me. And that's with old-fashioned tires (which, rhys, I assume you're running) that have real stout sidewalls. Modern-ish tires would want more like 32, 35psi.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:07 AM   #26
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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Twenty-six looks a lot more like it to me. And that's with old-fashioned tires (which, rhys, I assume you're running) that have real stout sidewalls. Modern-ish tires would want more like 32, 35psi.
Thanks both.

Yeah Rats, running a cross ply firestone 5.5", so maybe I need a little more in the rear as well! I have 30 in the front also (speedmaster)!
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Small easy bites first.

Air pressure.

Wheel bearings are trickey. Ball bearings run in grooves that MUST stay aligned perfectly. The inner spacer is there to keep things happpy when snugged down. They dont need reefed on as there is no preload like a tapered bearing. There cant be any play either. If you can feel side to side play they need replaced.

Neck bearings need the correct "fall away". Factory I think is 3-4* from center in either direction. Done with the bike level and off the ground. If the neck is raked or deraked, then it to feel. There should be no play up and down or side to side at all.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:12 PM   #28
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

It's not a sports bike .
Balance your front wheel
Then play with the rest.
(Maybe something you have to live with I presume your not stock?)


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Old 05-14-2017, 06:32 AM   #29
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

/\/\ what Richbob says, balance, check neck tweaked down and not slack then consider heavier springs in springer, narrow bars / rabbit ears are going to accentuate any wobble then if you can't 'ride around it' fit a steering damper; that could be a first on a chop.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:58 AM   #30
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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It's not a sports bike .
Balance your front wheel
Then play with the rest.
(Maybe something you have to live with I presume your not stock?)


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It's minute anyway man, I had 16 PSI in my rear cross ply tyre, I'll bet that's helped a lot of it too. Neck bearings are all good.

It's small amount anyway just gets on your nerves!!
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #31
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I thought you already balanced both wheels?
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:23 AM   #32
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I thought you already balanced both wheels?
Front wheel hasn't been done Brandt.

Rear was rebuilt by yours truly and then gone through by a local guy who's done 1000's

As mentioned previously I had 17 PSI it turned out in the rear. For Cross ply tyres you need to run a minimum of 25 due to the design of the tyre. I haven't gone out today as I've been tidying bits up and also waiting for new main shaft seals for my tranny.

Should be fine. The wobble was less with more air in the front tyre, I also have narrow bars which are welded to my top clamp so I guess it'll never be "perfect" but If I can get it as smooth as possible as we all know, springers leave a lot to be desired in most cases anyway!
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Mine dont wobble or hop.

Balance that wheel.
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:17 PM   #34
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Mine dont wobble or hop.

Balance that wheel.
Stopping my tranny greasing my whole frame is the priority! it's next on the list!
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Get that shit fixed bruddah!

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Old 05-16-2017, 07:49 AM   #36
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

I dont have the front or rear wheel balanced.. been riding like that for 5 years.

I just live with it really, adds to the excitement ahahhaa. wonder if I should get it done.
what weights should be used? the ones clamped on the spokes?
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:34 AM   #37
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FYI the way out of a wobble is to accelerate. This is counter intuitive your instinct is to slow. That results in fork collapsing down lowering rake and shorting trail, when you need the opposite, and when you accelerate the bike wants to stand up and go straight. Best to do it immediately, before you get to tank slapping.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:40 AM   #38
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Spoke weights look the cleanest. Stick on's can be more accurate. But as you can attest if not to far out you will have no trouble, other than uneven tread wear.
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:43 AM   #39
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I dont have the front or rear wheel balanced.. been riding like that for 5 years.

I just live with it really, adds to the excitement ahahhaa. wonder if I should get it done.
what weights should be used? the ones clamped on the spokes?
Yeah.. Mines minute but I guess with a suicide shift should get it perfect!
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:28 AM   #40
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Yeah.. Mines minute but I guess with a suicide shift should get it perfect!
POINT....No such thing as Suicide SHIFT !!!.... suicide Clutch yes, & Jockey shift....

In reality unless you have a shaft drive you don't need to balance the rear wheel as the chain is only ever on part of the sprocket.
thus your rear wheel is always out of balance,...
but fronts should be balanced and correct tyre pressures used,
check them weekly,
it takes seconds and saves lives and makes riding more pleasurable, better & easier steering with less Vibrations to give ya White knuckle.....
& ya Tyres will last longer.....
also, remember a cross-ply on the rear & radial on the front is Illegal in England, if plod stops ya its 6 points + a fine........
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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POINT....No such thing as Suicide SHIFT !!!.... suicide Clutch yes, & Jockey shift....

In reality unless you have a shaft drive you don't need to balance the rear wheel as the chain is only ever on part of the sprocket.
thus your rear wheel is always out of balance,...
but fronts should be balanced and correct tyre pressures used,
check them weekly,
it takes seconds and saves lives and makes riding more pleasurable, better & easier steering with less Vibrations to give ya White knuckle.....
& ya Tyres will last longer.....
also, remember a cross-ply on the rear & radial on the front is Illegal in England, if plod stops ya its 6 points + a fine........


I stand corrected!

Yeah I need to have a look at my front wheel! I do wonder Pete who would be knowledgeable in the plod to know the difference! I wasn't aware it's illegal though!
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Old 05-16-2017, 01:49 PM   #42
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I don't know where you are but here in Sussex most Traffic police are qualified MOT inspectors,...
they know their stuff for sure.....
local Plod are thick as shit & twice as Runny !!!.....
they are also on a purge here at the moment, being PC about Bike safety,...
they would have a field day on you with no front brake or mudguard,
like I said 6 points for the tyre....
the no front brake may even get you a ''Dangerous Condition'' charge if they are in a bad mood, not sure if points go with that.....just be careful,....
personally I don't follow trends, too old for that shit, so when I build I do the basics
BETTER than is needed,.. top performance tyres, brakes and bearings, forks that work etc etc etc.....
then the fucks can't touch ya,....
nothing more satisfying than being stopped by Plod and they cant find anything wrong....pisses them off, makes me laugh.
I gotta admit we here in England do get it easier than most,... I'm American but have been here many years now because of the shit from NJ state Troopers,...fucking Nazi's !!... Brit Cops are fairly laid back, but don't push it,they ARE out to get you, it's in their Nature.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Glad you said it


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Old 05-17-2017, 02:30 AM   #44
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

And if you do get stopped 1st impression is important.(policeman will probably be a little brusk or sarcastic they are taught to do this to gauge you.("who do you think you are? Barry Sheene" )
Get straight off the bike and Helmet and shades off , arms by your sides (not crossed)
and be the nicest guy on earth. Hello officer (good morning or whatever)
I have been stopped alot and and rode or driven away when i was clearly in the wrong
Purely by being nice,(Important helmet off then you become human not a traffic offender)
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:34 AM   #45
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

too add to richbob's advice. One of those gauges, I was told about by a old friend many years ago. It's the picture on your license. Mine has this happy smiley old guy. Also always got a pass when stopped though that wasn't often.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:45 AM   #46
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

... not getting stopped often is the result of looking real carefully around before doing something that LEO's may think is a violation.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:14 AM   #47
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Yeah of course, I ride with an open face helmet and I'm genuinely nice enough haha. Not sure where I stand, I don't have to MOT my bike as pre 1960 it's not needed so I don't know where I stand with some laws!

Now on to rebuilding my tranny.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:52 PM   #48
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

you may be MOT exempt BUT you still have to comply with ALL the ''Construction & Use'' Laws.
it doesn't mean you don't need brakes, foot pegs, mudguards, securely mounted seats, etc....bent handlebars are still a No No,... Bald or incorrect Tyres a no no (+6 Points) ...
some things are NOT on an MOT ,like mudguards and chain guards but if you have a rear seat & rear passenger pegs a chain guard is required under the Construction & Use law, front muddy is also required again even though it's not an mot item.....
MOT exemption was brought in because so many people with older cars and bikes were failing MOT's as they were being tested to todays standards & VOSA was inundated with appeals that clogged the system,......... it Doesn't mean ''anything goes'' ... it means they Trust the owner of a vintage vehicle to keep it in a proper, roadworthy safe condition, ....death traps will be treated by the police in the same way as always.
also the down side in a worst case scenario,if every other Pre 1960 car/bike take the piss and drive dangerous vehicles they could very easily ban all made before 1960, that NO one wants.....
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:13 PM   #49
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnum45pete View Post
you may be MOT exempt BUT you still have to comply with ALL the ''Construction & Use'' Laws.
it doesn't mean you don't need brakes, foot pegs, mudguards, securely mounted seats, etc....bent handlebars are still a No No,... Bald or incorrect Tyres a no no (+6 Points) ...
some things are NOT on an MOT ,like mudguards and chain guards but if you have a rear seat & rear passenger pegs a chain guard is required under the Construction & Use law, front muddy is also required again even though it's not an mot item.....
MOT exemption was brought in because so many people with older cars and bikes were failing MOT's as they were being tested to todays standards & VOSA was inundated with appeals that clogged the system,......... it Doesn't mean ''anything goes'' ... it means they Trust the owner of a vintage vehicle to keep it in a proper, roadworthy safe condition, ....death traps will be treated by the police in the same way as always.
also the down side in a worst case scenario,if every other Pre 1960 car/bike take the piss and drive dangerous vehicles they could very easily ban all made before 1960, that NO one wants.....
As always Pete, appreciate the advice and knowledge. De railing this a little though, it's about my wobbly front tyre! I've put more pressure in, tightened the bearings, but not ridden since as I'm sorting my leaky 4 speed out.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:28 PM   #50
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Get that tranny fixed
And back to your suicide shifting !


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Old 05-17-2017, 05:52 PM   #51
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Default Decel wobble around 50MPH

You obviously haven't met a Welsh copper Rich, they'll go to any length to prove a point round these parts

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nort...police-2853541

Sorry Rhys, couldn't resist.
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

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Originally Posted by richbob View Post
Get that tranny fixed
And back to your suicide shifting !


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Already on it rich! stripped down and all seals replaced!
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: Decel wobble around 50MPH

Turns out my front wheel isn't running true. That could be it! so will attempt to lessen it with spoke adjustment!
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