1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build" - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 11-01-2016, 07:57 AM   #1
newman
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Default 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

OK, I know a lot of you have seen my girder fork thread, so a bit of this is rehash, but I wanted to get some of this stuff on here chronologically. If you read the fork thread, you can probably read the beginning of post 1 and then jump to post 4. I posted this over on another (the other) forum that prefers angle grinders to machine tools (but I still love them). It's going to seem like a huge blast right off the bat, sorry about that. I'll update it as I go from now on. Maybe print it out in full color on your company's printer and go read it in the shitter, IDK.

So, a bit of backstory, everyone who knows me knows I talk about this thing all the time. I was trying to keep it on the DL online because I was trying to get invited to a "cool" event like born free or Brooklyn. I've since decided that I'm just a nobody and don't really deserve to be invited anywhere. Maybe sometime in the future. Also I am simply just not good at selling myself on social media, so here's where I'm at and I'll update this as I go.

Basically the whole project started like this, a titled basket 1940 EL motor.




By now I've accumulated basically all OEM (not year correct, though) external parts. I'm going to use S&S/Jims/Andrews internals. The motor will be mostly stock. I don't plan on making it anything other than clean, I want to leave all the "wear" marks in the parts that have accumulated over the last 75 years. Sort of like how I shined up this cam cover:



For the sake of the story, not much has happened with the motor, I’ve been too busy with other things to really dick with that. Also, for the sake of the story this is going to be a little out of order, but no one’s probably reading any of this anyway.
I wanted to build a fork for this build, so here’s the story of that:
Drew it in cad.







Got castings made from 3d printed wax off cad models. Material is 316L. This is not inexpensive, but I don’t spend much money on things besides motorcycles, so it was within budget. All said and done I have into this what a nice condition early springer would cost.



Had to machine the castings. Fixturing these was often difficult and quite a learning experience for me.
























Last edited by newman; 11-01-2016 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

Fucked this one up. It was late and I was tired and added .100 to .750 and got .760. Can see the hole is offset to the right:



Had to weld



Mill flat:



Bore:



Better:



More parts:


Made these from solid bar:



Polished/smoothed:



More polished parts. About 14 hours of polishing time for these two parts.












More polishing. Wound up spending about 100 hours polishing alone.



Made some axle nuts:



Some more things. I reworked that part that I mentioned earlier that needed more work. Got it very very nice. Part of getting it nice was the discovery of this technique for fine grit sanding. It's sort of like a cheap flap wheel that super soft. Basically just a worn down buffing wheel and some cloth backed sandpaper cut up. An internet guy named Benji showed me. What a sweet deal.



Came out nice:



This is the bottom that you will never see #selfie :



Next I polished these guys up:



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Old 11-01-2016, 07:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

Came out nice:





I even tried something called grease-less compound, which is sort of a gritty paste you apply to a buffing wheel after applying glue, then it's supposed to make a soft, but gritty sanding wheel. Well that doesn't work, and it makes a huge fucking mess. More #selfie #dexter







It would work well for a few minutes, but it took longer to apply the paste than it did to wear it all off. Not worth the time.

I made an axle and stem bolt. First time doing manual threading on this lathe. Came out well, though I did find out there is a slight taper to the bed when I was trying to cut the bearing faces and the stem/tree interference face, but I was able to make it perfect (within a half thou) with some careful work.







Made a jig:



It's exciting to see hundreds of hours of work start to come together.

I didn't have a die big enough to put an 8" CLR radius bend on some 3/4 X .120 wall 316. I even called pro tools and the biggest die they can make is 7" CLR. The first person to quote this sentence and include your paypal address I’ll send 5 dollars to because I don’t think anyone actually reads it. They said they could outsource it, but it would be over 2500 dollars. Not worth it for 2 40 degree bends. Fortunately, my friend Zach gave me some oak boards. I drew a semi circle on them.



Missing a couple in process pictures, but then I clamped 2 pieces together, drilled and countersunk holes thru both, then cut out both pieces on the band saw. Then I took them apart and used a cove router to put a concave quarter circle on the curved edge:



Bolt both pieces together and now you have a forming die:



Soaked it in water for a bit so it would start on fire. Then filled the tube with sand and packed it tight, taped it off.

***If you try this, make sure your sand is baked dry. Even if it SEEMS dry, it's not and it can explode. Bake it for a few hours.***

Next I added some heat to the area I needed the bend to occur and bent that shit up. If I had to guess I'd say the wood die would last between 5 and 10 bends. More if you soak it longer and between each.



Checked the part to my 1:1 print, looks good a little off but:



Nope it's basically perfect:



Made a second one:



Right on. Then I sanded them with 120 grit. (Polish coming soon, but wanted to test fit-up)

Coming together!





Then finally got it welded together. Excuse all the fingerprints. I swear the polishing is nearly perfect.

It is full 316L SS. Uses friction dampers on the front of the lower link, which also has stroke limiters. The hardware is all custom made 17-4PH SS. The only part I didn't make was the spring (the acorn nut shown on the stem will be replaced with something I make)
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:59 AM   #4
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And here are the finished pics:












Once the fork was done it was time to move on to the frame:


Axle plates. These are almost totally hidden (more on that later) so I didn’t sweat the polishing too hard.




Got some more wax castings done:



Then started the arduous task of polishing them. These pictures are “in progress pictures” I actually purchased and polished them before I had even started on the fork, and I learned a lot in that time. I re-polished them, but I don’t have any good pictures.

This motor mount is desined in such a way that I don’t need a squish pipe to run exhaust between the motor mount and the cam case:




Here’s some more story time: the neck casting I had made was pretty cool lookin’ But I tried my fuckin hardest to polish it and just couldn’t get it to come out good.



Too many Nooks and crannies



So then I sacked up and sent it to Tony Brock @ Mirror Finish Polishing. I paid him 50% extra to expedite it. 500 fuckin’ dollars. Well, after waiting nearly the amount of time he quoted me for a NON-expedited job, he sent it back looking like this:



He said that the expedited timeline starts when he deposits the check. OK. I then asked if I got a new neck cast with less small inside fillets if he would polish that one. He said sure. Well, I assumed that meant he would do it for free since I paid him so much to do basically nothing, so I had this one made:



I was getting ready to send it to him and asked him what his timeline would be and he said “several weeks and he’d only charge me based on actual hours” Fuck that. I was pissed and I’ll never send him anything again. Next step was machining it



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Old 11-01-2016, 08:00 AM   #5
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Fuck you Tony I’m gonna do this shit myself











Then I got two super nice 1940 Half dollars and pressed them suckers into the neck:





More frame parts:





I know I make it seem like all this shit is easy and fast but I have been working on this project for a year. Working with Stainless, especially polished stainless is so much goddamn work. You have to think about when to polish, how to hold things, etc etc. I wish I documented everything, but here’s one little part and all the steps it took. A whole day’s worth of work most people would probably just think it’s something I bought on ebay:
Start with some round stock:



Chuck it up in the lathe and make it shiny:



Cut it to shape, don’t cut it off the bar yet though…



Get a new piece and start making something else:



Then make THAT shiny



Out of the lathe, into the mill:



Cope:



Then cut it off. Repeat 6 times:





Clamp so they’re square:



Weld:

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Old 11-01-2016, 08:00 AM   #6
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Back into the mill. Face, then drill and tap:





Step back and admire the work you did that no one will ever care about:



Made some more little dodads for the frame.





If anyone is wondering how I do this with no CNC, you make lots of little cuts to a print, then file and sand it smooth. Lots of time, again.





Here is another part, the slug for the joint where the axle plates meet the frame



There are lots and lots and lots of other parts that I had to make just for the frame, but I don’t have pictures of them all.

I did buy this tubing roller from harbor freight for some parts of the frame:



That wood die trick I used earlier held up in my hydraulic bender! So that was nice. I added some plates to the side for rigidity.



The chainstay portion of the frame is in tension, so I wanted a little extra weld there. That’s what these holes were for





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Old 11-01-2016, 08:01 AM   #7
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I’m going to gloss over about 4 week’s worth of work of cutting and bending and shaping and sanding and just jump straight to some finished pictures. There are hundreds of hours in this frame:



















@soulofire_ took these:





I also designed some hubs:





And made a lot of other pieces:







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Old 11-01-2016, 08:01 AM   #8
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I bought some Borrani rims direct from Italy and painted them at my friend’s shop. Then I sent them to Buchanan’s to be laced up. They did a good job.











Ok, so now I’ll jump to some pictures from when the frame wasn’t complete, but I wanted to check the fitment of some components. This whole build hinges around the concept of having the rear sprocket and brake outbuard of the frame in the rear. The sprocket and rotor spacing is standard shovelhead, the frame rails at the back are only 4.5” on center. Everything fits as it should.





The rear drive. Sprocet is similar. Right now I have components for a keyed shaft but I may commission a splined shaft. (I can cut the keys but I can’t cut the spline)



Neck detail



Here’s some detail of the front wheel. Assymetric hub, half radial laced, half 4 cross.



That takes us to about the present. I’ve been working on some motor and trans mount parts the last couple days:





Some gussets will go under here



Pretty good fitup:





I got the motor mount welded in which was the last thing I had to do in the jig so I was able to pull it out tonight. I've gotta knock that lower neck cup out of there unfortunately. I rushed it in a few weeks ago and the stop tab attached to the cup is twisted. I can't get a good piece of it with a punch so I think I'm going to have to weld a plat across the bottom of it and wail it out.





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Old 11-01-2016, 08:01 AM   #9
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Made some nuts for the rear axle. I intend on having both sides removable.

When I made my axle, I put a left hand thread female 3/8-24 thread and a male 3/4-16 thread on either end. The purpose of the internal thread is to lock the axle nut in place without using lock tabs, etc. I wanted to use safety wire. There are a million ways to do this, I just chose a method that I thought was interesting.

The axle looks like this. The nut threads on and then a left hand screw and washer go in to prevent the nut from backing out. Since it's left hand thread, they have to spin opposite directions to unscrew.



Here's the nut and locking screw. Once installed and torqued, I'll add some safety wire between the two items to prevent it from loosening.



Here's the drawing for the nut.



And here are the steps to make it. It took 5 hours to make both. I figured if I typed this out, people would get some ideas on how to make their own stuff, or just how involved making even simple parts is. I chose to make it out of 1144 steel (called stressproof) because it has a good combination of hardness and toughness, machines well, is hardenable (if I decide to) and most importantly, I had some 1.5" stock laying around.

Face your shaft. Technically the "right" thing to do is to mill it flat in the rotary table, because then you know it would be true to the rotary table, but for this it doesn't really matter and the lathe is faster. I took off about .010, just enough to make it smooth.



Put the part in an indexable rotary table on the mill. Mill the decorative relief slots in. I cut each slot in 4 steps (.25,.50,.75,.825 depth), on the final step I cut in an additional .010 so the whole cut was uniform.



Next I milled the hex into the sides. I roughed each side in to +.010, then measured and came back through and cut to final dimension. I'll note that the final cut had to be actually .012 depth. Are you reading this? I love boobies. This could be due to a variety of things, tool wear, DRO error, slop in the rotary table, etc. I think often times people don't realize how much measuring and adjusting you need to constantly do on old machine tools. Also to note I used both climb milling and conventional milling.

Here's a little image to explain that:



Generally for steel you want to use conventional milling (try to use climb milling for aluminum always). If it's a super accurate part, you'll want to use the same type of milling for all sides, but I was getting good surface finish in both directions, so I just locked the Z and Y dims and went back and forth, rotating the part 60 degrees each time.



Next I drilled a hole. If you wanted it to be a perfect cut (which this isn't) you should A) use a good drill (which this wasn't, but I didn't use the endmill in the picture) B) drill a size close (like 1/32 under), then drill with the correct size. If you wanted it REALLY accurate, like for a bearing fit, you would use either a ream or a boring head. This is just for a threaded hole, so a drill is fine.



Next I milled a relief for the locking bolt's washer to rest in. This was cut with an endmill at full depths in 3 diameter changes (.150,.185,.200). This was a lot of continuous cranking. I think it goes about 5 degrees per handle revolution, so that's 360/5 * 3 = 216 cranks.



After that I machined in the "castle". Milling was done at full depth. I haven't been mentioning any feeds or speeds, but tool speed was about 800rpm and feed was whatever "felt right" at the knob, which was probably about 2 IPM.



Since I wanted to add those decorative little holes, now was the time to do that, because trying to add them in later on an angled surface would be next to impossible without a micro end mill (the hole is 3/32). Even on a flat surface it's easy to get drill deflection with a tiny little drill, so that's why i'm making center drill holes here. Also, my 3/32 drill had a tiny wobble to it, so this makes sure it tracks straight.



Now drill the hole with the little drill. I'm spinning about 1800 rpm and feeding VERY slowly. Drill depth was .153 and it took about 90 seconds to drill to that depth.



Next make some chamfers. More cranking. The top three are easy; you just set the tool and crank the part around, the lower three are a bit harder because you need to stay between the "castle ramparts".

Not my drawing, but I think we could all benefit from more shitty castle drawings:



A note on chamfering. It's hard to get the correct depth when you're doing an angled cut like this because the depth of cut is contingent on the cut diameter. That's why I added the Vs on the print in the upper right view.



Then I put the part in a lathe and first cut a relief in the bottom to act as a built in washer. It's .03 X .03. Can be seen on the print. This help prevents the nut from putting a visible scratch on the part it tightens against. Then I cut the part off completely.



Next, I manually tapped the hole. I do all my tapping in the bridegport because I am sure my tap is going in straight. After spending 2 hours making the part it would be really annoying to have the hole tapped crooked. I do this by just putting a piece of .25 rod that I sharpened (with a hand sander while spinning it on a drill press, I might add) into the collet and then moving it down every half turn until I'm about 4 full threads into the part. Sometimes more, sometimes less. One of these days I'm going to make a spring loaded deal, but no time right now. Add it to the list I guess.



The last step, which I forgot to take a picture of, was putting the nut in the vice and slowly drilling the safety wire holes in the "ramparts".

So here's the finished nut. Came out pretty nice. The chuck put some minor nicks in one of the nuts when I was tapping it. I will tumble them a bit, then have them electroless nickle plated with a few other parts. I chose ENP because the other parts have fits associated with them and ENP goes on very thinly and uniformly.



Hope you learned something about castles!
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuklhd
whats the issue with the motor mounts in the frame?
If the left rear bolt hole is set to (0,0) with positive X being toward the cam cover and positive Y being towards the front

Cad Model:
LF: (0,10.563) RF: (3.250,10.563)
LR: (0,0) RR: (3.5,0)

My actual cases measure:
LF: (0.134,10.531) RF: (3.387,10.531)
LR: (0,0) RR: (3.5,0)

So I need to rework the rear holes on the frame to get everything to line up.

So as mentioned in my last post, I had a left hand internal thread on my axle. I called and searched high and low for a left hand 3/8-24 socket head screw. No dice. Lots of places said they "had" them, but they were special order and I'd need to purchase 200.

I thought about it for a bit, scrounged around the shop and found a couple of these. A stainless 1/2-13X1 SHCS. A quick measure let me know that the root depth was greater than .375 so I was in business.



Chucked it up in the lathe:



Machined it down to .75 thread length:



Next, I machined the threads off:



And turned it to a diameter of .375



Next, added a chamfer with the edge of the threading tool (this isn't the appropriate way to do this)



Then I started to thread it.



Then I forgot to take pictures, but I drilled 6 safety wire holes in the newly threaded bolt, then put it back in the lathe and reshaped the head and polished it. Sorry about the slow step by step, then just a massive jump to: "... and then I was done!"



I was thinking to myself, wow, I'm going to make tons of my own fasteners like this, but I can't, because in order to cut RH threads the carriage needs to move TOWARD the chuck and I could never disengage the half nut in time and i'm sure I'd wind up crashing into the chuck. I'd have to thread it with a die or something.

So my plan for fork stops has been to use a neck cup with a stopper built in. I had pressed one into the frame to get it out of the jig for a test fit, but when I did that, it didn't go in exactly straight. (It was in the bore straight, but it was twisted, so the "stopping" locations would be off. Not only was it difficult to verify the straightness while starting the press, but the bolt I was using to draw the cup in twisted the cup as well.

I wasn't about to let that happen again.

The first thing I did was get the old cup out. Couldn't get a punch on it from the inside and I didn't want to risk damaging the neck, so I just sacrificed it:



Next I made this paddle looking thing.



That totally looks like a face...



Then I turned some inserts that fit nicely in the ID of the upper and lower cups



When the cup is placed over the spacer (and the bolt is there) the cup is located perfectly in line with the tube extension.



Then I had a friend hold the frame steady, another tightened up the bolt while I verified that the extension handle was (for all intents and purposes) inline with the backbone. It worked fuckin' perfect.



Then I drilled the neck out and pressed a pin in to ensure that it can never rotate.

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Old 11-01-2016, 08:03 AM   #11
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In this episode of make-a-nut, we're going to make another nut! This time for the stem.

First, make a drawing. The prime time to do this is when your GF wants you to do something.



Start with the same piece of 1144 from last time. Drill some pilot marks.



Then drill them deeper. Remember to go slow, you're drilling these little holes now so that in case you snap the bit off in there, you won't try and angrily flip over the bridgeport. It sure seems like a lot of material.



Then clean off the scraps. Looks pretty goood.



Next, drill a hole. Make sure you drill it deep enough to tap it before you cut it off. Maybe go a little extra, because maybe those full threads on the tap aren't ass full as you think and MAYBE later when the nut is cut off you're going to have to find a way to hold it without fucking it all up.



Next, drill a bigger hole. Just make sure it's about .040 smaller than the size you're going to need. Don't have a giant drill bit? Well maybe your next door neighbor used to be a diesel mechanic. Go ask him. No? Then you remember you used to beat your son with a sock full of drill bits. Yep, there's one in there, and it's perfect. Clean off the blood and go to town. You're probably going to want to drill this under 200rpm.



Break out the boring bar and machine the ID to the print. At this point, don't take the time to realize that the drill size for a 1-24 tap is .955 and not .965. Also, be sure to accidentally make the hole an extra .010 big because you didn't zero your calipers out properly.



Next we are going to put a little step in there to be used later.



Now use a 1/2 endmill and make the first feature.



And now use the same tool to rough in the flats. At this point your hands will start to hurt and you'll begin getting hungry. Consider giving up on motorcycles altogether and becoming a chef, however, once you have the last cut done, feel glad that your drill holes you added for reliefs all appear straight and correctly placed.



Grab a smaller endmill and machine to size.



Grab a socket and cross your fingers that this will work, because you've got like 4 hours invested in this damn thing and you've never made a 12 point nut before. Hey, it fits!


Next, add some chamfers because you're cool. Chamfers are cool, too.



Then add a bunch of crap to the bottom that you're theoretically going to use as a nut locking safety device.



Now it's time to tap. First, worry that the tap is going in a little too easy. Next, curse yourself for not making the whole deep enough to get full thread engagement. Finish tapping and look at the threads. Hmm, they don't look right. Go get your calipers. Go get a stock stem nut. Realize there is a .020 difference in thread minor diameters. Think long and hard again about giving up on motorcycles forever. Go on the internet. Check several sources about correct thread drill diameter. Curse. Look at a couple butts on the web. Start the whole project again. This time it only takes about 2.5 hours to get back to this stage. This time make sure you use an inside mic on the thread ID hole. This time drill the hole deep enough.

That looks pretty good, EASY!



Now VERY SLOWLY drill a .083 hole in each little tower.



Now tap those tiny little holes to 4-40 for a set screw. Consider setting up a noose on the overhead crane in the event you snap the tap off. Break your chip every 1/6 of a turn (vs the usual 1/2 turn). Top secret message: The hen is in the nest. Sweat runs in your eyes as you tap your part at a snails pace. The tap does not break and your fancy new nut is almost complete.



Spend some undocumented time making a filler piece with your initials on it out of 316SS



Question whether or not you're a narcissist.



You decide you're not, so make this rippled finisher part instead. Realize that you've spent 13 hours making a nut for your motorcycle that most people will probably thing you bought. You're tired and hungry. Go to the supermarket and buy a bag of spicy nacho kale chips and soy egg nog because you deliriously think it will be a good combo, and because you're a vegan and clearly must have judgement issues anyway. Drink almost the entire 'nog on the way home from the shop and go to bed without taking a shower. That's how you make a nut!

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Old 11-01-2016, 08:46 AM   #12
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Lovely
Awesome skills
Yea fuck Tony!
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:05 AM   #13
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That last post was some sort of Heart of Darkness emotional rollercoaster.

Still. So awesome to watch unfold...
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:34 AM   #14
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Five dolla! I like mammaries too! The hens are in the nest and the snails are pacing! I must now take a nap in the face of all this brilliance.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

I'd like to be invited too even if i know that that won't ever happen. I think you should build your bike and go to born free. BeCause i think if your design skills are as unreal as your fab skills you will completly pulverize them.
Having ones bike next to yours would be the worst place on the whole meet cause it would make it look like shit what ever they have done to their bikes.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratso View Post
Five dolla! I like mammaries too! The hens are in the nest and the snails are pacing! I must now take a nap in the face of all this brilliance.
Oh man, that ship sailed already, but good catch. I forgot to remove it when i was C&Ping.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:19 PM   #17
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You sir an artist of the lathe and miller. Can't wait to see the knuck finished. I have no doubt the detail will win some awards alone. Lovely to see somebody so infused about the detail. Question is do you actually do any work in work? or just machine sick parts?!
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elffors View Post
I'd like to be invited too even if i know that that won't ever happen. I think you should build your bike and go to born free. BeCause i think if your design skills are as unreal as your fab skills you will completly pulverize them.
Having ones bike next to yours would be the worst place on the whole meet cause it would make it look like shit what ever they have done to their bikes.
I'm thinking that I will try to do that, but it's looking like I won't be able to get it done for next year's event. I work on it nearly every day and I'm not even a full roller and it's been a year. :O
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

I'm just here with my files and MIG welder...

You know you're fucked when not only can you not figure out how Newman made this shit, but you don't even know what the name of the fucking machine is that he did it on is.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:48 PM   #20
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You sir an artist of the lathe and miller. Can't wait to see the knuck finished. I have no doubt the detail will win some awards alone. Lovely to see somebody so infused about the detail. Question is do you actually do any work in work? or just machine sick parts?!
I'm a mechanical engineer, so 8-5 M-F I do that, then usually work in the shop from 5-1, almost every day, except on the weekends, when it's shop time from 8am-1am.

I don't have any formal machine training, I just taught myself by reading and trying.

What I also don't have is much of a life.

Here are some other things in my garage:

53 panshovel that I'm throwing together with parts from around the shop, all I've made for it thus far is bars:





This 99 sporty chop. The coolest part about this bike is the 1 gallon reserve fuel tank under the oil tank. It has an electric fuel pump on a timed relay so once you hit reserve on the main tank, it pumps all the gas through a check valve and refills the main tank. There are a lot of other one off parts on it like the fork shrouds, risers, top triple tree, pipes, controls, etc. Just rode this one from Buffalo, NY to San Diego.















This "59" pan chop is my daily rider and dangerous as hell, a few custom tidbits here and there, like a tail light made from an old poweline insulator







This turbo 78 shovelhead that I posted here before:














This 75 CB550 that was my first motorcycle:





Then there are a few other misc ones like another sporty I made for my GF, a 93 fatboy and a 16 heritage.
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Old 11-01-2016, 01:29 PM   #21
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...
great skills and eye.

-the frame is really nice specially the curved part in the tail side tubes and the "shadows" that the welding let.

-The potential to know how to use these cad programs or have some one to made the draws is a HUGE advantage.

-Find a shop that accept these small (quantity) works.

-Find the right materials. Here, there are no availability of anything like that.

-Have the right tools.

-Incredible that you still have a gal...between those hours that you posted seems there is no time for her; and we all know that there s no gal that do not demand time.

-I do not have nothing of that so I am building a daily driver like in the past.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

that knuckle frame doesn't even need a motor to be a winner - lots of talent - earned by doing it yourself - really nice work - looks great
thanks for all the photos
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:17 PM   #23
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lovely selection of bikes man i'm very jealous! all those working hours does you alright it seems, got a small fortune there. Knuckle for me next, then I want a dodger charger I can tinker with. Also just bought an R100/7 BWM scrambler!
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:34 PM   #24
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I hope Guy from GKM is watching this unfold...

Beautiful craftsmanship, and all in stainless too. This is insane.

I'd post more compliments but I need to get into the garden to tend the big bonfire I just made of all my tools and everything I ever made, after reading through this.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:43 PM   #25
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You know you're fucked when not only can you not figure out how Newman made this shit, but you don't even know what the name of the fucking machine is that he did it on is.
The machining I get and you did a hell of a job documenting it. I thought I was the only nut job that liked to document stuff like that.

The casting process is what amazes me, I get it, but never did it, so sometimes it's hard to fully understand.

Nice work all around.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:18 PM   #26
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I've taken the day off work to do my Tax return ,this was a breath of fresh air ,custom bike building at its best ,awesome in the truest sense of the word.Thanks for sharing I'm gonna send a link to this to my mates, cheers
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:25 PM   #27
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It was swell of you to document the processes and to do so so clearly. Better than any old five dollars.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:33 PM   #28
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What a wonderful well documented build. I was about to start a build thread on my first build and I'm almost embarrassed to post it.

Nicely done!! Keep the posts coming!!
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:39 AM   #29
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Newman for President
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Old 11-02-2016, 01:37 PM   #30
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... although I do wish I had five dollars.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:52 PM   #31
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

I've been doing a lot of fab work for a transmission project for this bike, but I'm hesitant to post it anywhere. Maybe I'm being a little oversensitive, but a very well known builder has posted 3 things on instagram very recently that are very similar to things I've done and posted, or at least in my style.

I would normally say "eh, that's just the chopper world, everything is very similar", but this person has me BLOCKED so that I can't see his page. Like, why the fuck would you block me on instagram unless you were feeling guilty? IDK. I didn't even sniff this out, 3 different people forwarded me pictures at different times.

Anyway, I made this 5/8-18 12pt jam nut for my mainshaft. You'll never see it, but I'll know it's there. 4140 Q&T 28-32HRC.

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Old 11-09-2016, 06:46 PM   #32
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very nice work and thanks for sharing
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:26 AM   #33
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I have a sneaking suspicion I know who you are talking about. If I have it right I can tell you that is not the first set of handlebars he has made like that. The first set that I have seen was built early 2015. There may have been earlier versions to on differnt bikes but I wasn't following him at that time. First thing I thought of when I saw your frame was his bars. I don't know when you first posted your stuff up but I'm guessing this is more of a case of great minds think alike?

I may also have the wrong person in mind, either way your work speaks for itself. Unless you plan on never riding the bike people are going to take inspiration from it, and copy aspects of it. Might as well keep showing the world your skill.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:19 AM   #34
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I have a sneaking suspicion I know who you are talking about. If I have it right I can tell you that is not the first set of handlebars he has made like that. The first set that I have seen was built early 2015. There may have been earlier versions to on differnt bikes but I wasn't following him at that time. First thing I thought of when I saw your frame was his bars. I don't know when you first posted your stuff up but I'm guessing this is more of a case of great minds think alike?

I may also have the wrong person in mind, either way your work speaks for itself. Unless you plan on never riding the bike people are going to take inspiration from it, and copy aspects of it. Might as well keep showing the world your skill.

Honestly, that's kind of what I was thinking happened. Nothing I've done is super unique, and I don't think I'm that great or doing anything that really hasn't been done. I guess I was just sort of taken aback that this guy with 30k followers and a legit shop operation thought it was important or necessary to prevent me from seeing his otherwise public page. It's also very out of character for me because normally I couldn't give a fuck about other people's opinions, ESPECIALLY internet ones.

Either way, I'm not posting any of this transmission stuff until I have it entirely worked out. It's a ton of work, I've got 50 hours at least into the design and have only made a handful of parts.
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Old 11-10-2016, 11:11 AM   #35
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Obviously you do give a fuck (your talking about it here)
Internet social network =Faceless minions.

I joined Facebook because i needed it for Tinder(like A get laid App)
and all Facebook keeps doing is sending me messages that i don't have any friends.
Its so upsetting (yea right)

C'mon get your gearbox up.
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Old 11-10-2016, 12:08 PM   #36
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Once it's more than a concept and a mess of parts I will.
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:47 PM   #37
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This project is just unreal. Own design beautiful castings of stainless steel. Incredible front end. Incredible frame that has chain and brake disk outside the frame.

I have experiences of stainless steel polishing and I know how hard work it is. My favorite project ever.
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Old 11-10-2016, 04:10 PM   #38
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Your definitly being humble. Not many guys are building stuff like you. Can't wait for the next update!
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Old 11-10-2016, 08:57 PM   #39
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Really nice work, ( I have trouble calling machine work fabrication, with all the math, trig and geometry associated with it ,its more science than something that can be covered by a word that also means lying!). Most of the engineers I know couldn't design any part of this and damn sure couldn't make it! You are a unique individual sir. I also am running aBridgeport mill with some runout, I've found that if I machine something down to say .25mm then make my finish cuts using high rpm climb cuts at my final value I'm usually dead on dimension. Under normal machining practices The action of the end mill tooth on the wall in front of the tooling actually pushes the end mill further into the workpiece making it undersized.
I'm curious, I don't remember ever machining stainless. Is it difficult to deal with? It tigs much easier than plain carbon steal, but I think it is harder?
Lastly, I love the stance of that turbo shovel, what's the rake and trail?
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Old 11-11-2016, 07:12 AM   #40
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No doubt this gentleman is a artist and an exceptional tradesman..
Bravo sir, bravo!
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Old 11-11-2016, 10:12 AM   #41
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Thanks for the compliments everyone.

Quote:
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Really nice work, ( I have trouble calling machine work fabrication, with all the math, trig and geometry associated with it ,its more science than something that can be covered by a word that also means lying!). Most of the engineers I know couldn't design any part of this and damn sure couldn't make it! You are a unique individual sir. I also am running aBridgeport mill with some runout, I've found that if I machine something down to say .25mm then make my finish cuts using high rpm climb cuts at my final value I'm usually dead on dimension. Under normal machining practices The action of the end mill tooth on the wall in front of the tooling actually pushes the end mill further into the workpiece making it undersized.
I'm curious, I don't remember ever machining stainless. Is it difficult to deal with? It tigs much easier than plain carbon steal, but I think it is harder?
Lastly, I love the stance of that turbo shovel, what's the rake and trail?
I've never heard that fabrication joke.

Machining stainless sucks. It work hardens, gums up, just generally shitty, have to cut really slow. Been doing a lot of work with 4140 and 1144 lately and it's MUCH easier to work with.

The shovel is -5 degrees, and the trail, I THINK was about 3". I'd have to dig up my old drawings to be sure and they're on an old harddrive.
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Old 11-11-2016, 10:40 AM   #42
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Thanks for the compliments everyone.



I've never heard that fabrication joke.

Machining stainless sucks. It work hardens, gums up, just generally shitty, have to cut really slow. Been doing a lot of work with 4140 and 1144 lately and it's MUCH easier to work with.

The shovel is -5 degrees, and the trail, I THINK was about 3". I'd have to dig up my old drawings to be sure and they're on an old harddrive.
That's cause I just made it up!
Well crap, honestly it's my daughters joke, albeit inadvertently. She was with me when someone asked me what I did at the auto plant where I work. People can't understand what I do so I just say I'm a fabricator. After I told the guy I was a fabricator at the plant she asked why did I tell him I was a liar? Problem was she was serious!
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Old 12-01-2016, 12:06 PM   #43
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unfucking believable build.

the knuck is the most insane build i've ever seen (in a great way), the other bikes are bitchin' too.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:12 PM   #44
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Newman, your work is just amazing. I love your ingenuity and attention to detail, your welds are just fantastic and I love reading through your threads.

Great stuff, Dan.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:25 AM   #45
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So, I spent about 50 hours making a set of handlebars, and they’re not even done yet. I didn’t document a lot of the fab work, because the task was so daunting. It doesn’t even look like something that would take as long as it did, but manual machining and manual polishing really eats up a lot of time.

The first step was to make these parts. They look simple, and on a CNC they would be. Doing it on manual equipment really presented all sorts of challenges.



The right hand side one is even drilled for throttle cable pass through.




Next, I needed a 1.25” bend CLR on some 1” round. I don’t have a die for my bender that small, and I doubt anyone does… Never fear:



That’ll work. Took a few tries which was about the end of the service life for the die.



So now I am just going to jump to the complete product but there is a TON that I am skipping. The bars are actually made from 13 different pieces. There is a riser cap, upper tube, middle tube and lower solid round section. The solid round section is profiled manually and then headlight mounting bracket bosses were added. They also have a “backup ring” that takes some of the suspension load off the stem nut. The risers actually pass through the top tree and bolt to the bottom tree. There is a set screw behind the upper girder links that keeps the bars from rattling around in the top tree.

The upper portion of the bars I am not decided on yet. It’s going to be a function of tank fitment I think, but fortunately, I can almost do that at the very end of the project, allowing me to play with various ideas. So here are some pictures that I don’t really feel does the project justice, but it will get the idea across.
Riser backup ring:





Front view:





Top view:



Details:



Side view:




Another option in case I decide to run lower bars:



The profiled riser support uprights, milled and tapped for headlight mounts:





Also got some parts back from heat treat. The nuts are 1144 and HT to 54HRC, the other parts are 4140 and HT to 51HRC.



This IG video gives a bit of a better "overall feel" to the bars:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNYLt_vl...en-by=ctnewman

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Old 12-02-2016, 10:51 AM   #46
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Amazing man!

I had some bars fabbed, but I just welded mind to my top tree! simple life for me haha.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:32 AM   #47
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knuckle

What amazing craftsmanship!
Thanks for sharing and in so much detail too. Keep it coming!

Lester
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:06 PM   #48
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I like that everything you do is odd as hell but the outcome is always pleasing looking.
So many times we get a build thread from an excellent craftsman who has zero design taste. You combine great skills as a machinist with a keen eye for design and execution.
I am in awe of what you are doing here.
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:38 PM   #49
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Thanks guys.

Hearing that people appreciate my stuff keeps me stoked to keep going, because sometimes it's hard to spend all my time in the shop or at work.
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Old 12-05-2016, 09:01 AM   #50
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Decided I wanted to make my own headlight. So first I bought a cool looking lens for an old chevy. Then I drew a cad model of what I wanted the headlight to look like.



Then I modified to be constructed from pieces 3/16 thick.



Then used that cad model to make templates:



Cut out some 3/16 316SS plate to the dimensions of the template:



Then start welding. Remember to take a selfie.



Welding it in small layers helps. Remember to keep it clamped.




Let it fully cool before unclamping and rewilding:



Ultimately it was pretty good welding practice, but I got bored and started rushing.



The inside:




Time to start sanding… getting there:




Fast forward a couple hours. By no means a perfect polish, but it’s just gotta reflect light:



Clamp the lid onto the body:



And match drill/tap/cbore:



Start sanding:



Keep sanding:



Still sanding!




Now fast forward about 8 hours:









Overall I do not recommend this method of construction. I kept sanding totally through my welds, which required a lot of rewelding. Very frustrating. Next time I think I'll pay someone to hog the rough shape out of billet before sanding smooth. About a 25 hour endeavor to get to this point. Still needs mounts and a bulb holder, that's why it isn't fully polished.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:03 PM   #51
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Holy jeebers. I thought it was awesome in its early, ziggurat phase. What a piece of work. You're a real craftsman and -- it must be said -- a real character.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:10 PM   #52
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I'll pack up my tools and clear off my bench in the morning.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:41 PM   #53
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This is going to be one of those bikes that will be famous, legendary, incredible, and a step up from anything we've ever seen! And we're lucky enough to see it get hand made right here.

Thank you and please keep the pics and commentary coming!
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:38 AM   #54
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Enough... stop. Waaaaaay to much awsesome here.

I cant handle the resentment I have towards my junk, that I have after looking at this thread.

Im ten seconds from lightin my pan on fire.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:14 AM   #55
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I'll add my admiration of your work and appreciation for sharing it here. She's gorgeous so far and getting better with each installment.
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:34 AM   #56
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Under normal circumstances I wouldn’t even bother posting about something as simple as a headlight support bracket, but this one has a little twist so here it is:

First I made a drawing, then using a center drill, marked a bunch of key locations on a hunk of 7GA 316SS. Using a compass and a scribe, I added the outline of the part.



Drill some holes.



Make some slots:



Now you can see why there were so many extra holes for a part that only needs two bolts. Not having a CNC forces me to use the rotary table whenever I need to circular mill something.



First slot done. Then unbolt and move to the other hole. This wouldn’t work if you needed high precision, but this is a low precision slot. Will become apparent later:



Second slot done:



Cut it out on your saw with a shitty blade:



Then get it more accurate with a sander:



Next, cut out another piece out of some thinner 316. This is 12ga or ~.100



Weld ‘em together.



Use an endmill to start a hole:



And a drill bit to finish:



That’s what he was doing…



Whenever I am worried about something not coming out right, I forget to take pictures, so what’s not shown is Z bending the part on a shitty box brake, or any of the sanding and smoothing, so here is the end result. The wire will enter the bracket, and then never be seen again.







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Old 12-06-2016, 11:56 AM   #57
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Mister Newman,

Three questions/comments:
1) What software do you use? Solidworks?
2) Do you tie your hair/beard when drilling/milling/sanding? Is good workshop practice, you know.


3) Thank you for giving us the heads up on the new trend after you release your bike to the public: the "cordless" headlight!
It (really!) looks awesome!
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:09 PM   #58
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Mister Newman,

Three questions/comments:
1) What software do you use? Solidworks?
2) Do you tie your hair/beard when drilling/milling/sanding? Is good workshop practice, you know.

3) Thank you for giving us the heads up on the new trend after you release your bike to the public: the "cordless" headlight!
It (really!) looks awesome!
1) Inventor. Mostly because that is what we use at work.

2) Yeah, although recently I dipped my hair into what was going to be a beautiful weld while trying to get a better look at it.

3) You're welcome.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:35 AM   #59
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Fire, litteraly on fire....

Everything you touch is waaaay past what I could dream up. Most of it I am lost.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:50 AM   #60
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very impressive...... thanks for the updates and explanations
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:48 AM   #61
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continue to be absolutely blown away...

not only is the fabrication amazing, your eye is great.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:05 PM   #62
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...do not get it the way you sanded the headlight but looks incredible. Tools, ideas and talent.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:36 AM   #63
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Madness.
You don't base jump by any chance do you?
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Old 12-09-2016, 04:38 AM   #64
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I feel like this is 2016/2017's version of the "Japanese custom built from scratch" thread, where the whole goddamn board keeps refreshing their Jockey Journal tab just to see if Newman did anything recently.
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Old 12-09-2016, 08:36 AM   #65
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Madness.
You don't base jump by any chance do you?
I do. Or did. I'm at least partially "retired". Made about 800 jumps over 5 years, had a very close friend, who was a better jumper than I, die on a jump that we'd all consider "safe". Not that I didn't know it was a real possibility, it just bummed me out. Also, when you're actively jumping, you need to be on your shit and thinking about it 24/7. Obviously I've got other things going on.

Here's a base video I made a few years ago. This is edited, many of the jumps were illegal, so those ones are just a blank screen.



Quote:
Originally Posted by govmule84 View Post
I feel like this sis 2016/2017's version of the "Japanese custom built from scratch" thread, where the whole goddamn board keeps refreshing their Jockey Journal tab just to see if Newman did anything recently.
Thanks. I post a lot more on instagram, because sometimes I don't have the energy to write up a whole post.

Here's a quick video of a kicker arm I finished yesterday...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNyHhSKl...en-by=ctnewman

And some modified kicker gears...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNfu7kvl...en-by=ctnewman

And how I modified them:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNfkeJ9l...en-by=ctnewman

And then there is a mystery transmission part... all these things are related..

https://www.instagram.com/p/BM7t8sBl...en-by=ctnewman
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:25 AM   #66
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Super intrigued. Obviously there is something going on with a cable; I see the stop on the arm and the ditch for it to lay in on the wheel, but I have no idea what the fuck it's for.
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Old 12-09-2016, 10:20 AM   #67
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This stuff is just insane man. It's pushing me to step out of my comfort zone on my build for sure. Thanks for the inspiration. Sorry for the sappy shit but your work is otherworldly. Keep it up brother.


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Old 12-09-2016, 01:12 PM   #68
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I mean, I guess it's ok
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Old 12-09-2016, 10:40 PM   #69
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Truly an amazing vision for a bike!
Keep 'me coming...like everyone, I'm enjoying the hell outta watching your build.

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Old 12-11-2016, 09:09 AM   #70
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Sorry again for more instagram videos, but check these out. The culmination of two months of work. Basically, i reimagined the kicker side of the transmission and made it open, sorta like an old indian. Since the bike is a very "skinny" build, the widest thing by far was the tranmission, so I sought to move the kicker inboard. My end design moved the right most edge of the transmission in about 2.5 inches, which is pretty significant. In order to do this I had to get rid of the torsion spring, so I replaced it with a cable and linear spring. The net result force is nearly identical to measured values of a stock kicker spring. The rest of the transmission parts to seal it are already fabricated, and I've mocked them up on a dummy transmission.

Couple hundred hours of work here between design and fab time. Hope you enjoy.



https://www.instagram.com/p/BN3RU-Fl...en-by=ctnewman

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN3UTltl...en-by=ctnewman
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:37 AM   #71
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Crap Newman, I feel small now!
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Old 12-11-2016, 11:15 AM   #72
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Are the support bits and throwout arm both investment cast too?
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:09 PM   #73
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Ho-lee fuck.

I guess we know who's going to be an invited builder for '18...
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Old 12-12-2016, 02:21 PM   #74
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Insane dude Thumps up
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:46 AM   #75
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Here are some actual pictures of the trans parts:

This little guy locks the CShaft from spinning.



The CShaft passes through the trans and also supports the kicker.



Here are some shots with the throwout bearing installed. It has bearings on both the inside of the "cup" and on the outside where the fork contacts it.



This is the throwout cup. Thrust ball bearing inside, radial bearing outside on the fork. Believe it or not this part was made 100% on the bridgeport with zero CNC.



Here are a few more shots.







You can sort of see some of the sealing parts in there, I had to add 3 orings, two plugs, and 2 lip seals, and will also have to seal some of the bolts.

Unlike a standard 4 speed, the kicker clutch gear always spins and is engaged with the kicker clutch hub. The only time it "ratchets" is when the kicker is moving backwards. The kick gear is a sector gear that is "out of the way" while the bike is running. Having smooth re-meshing with the stock style gear was poor, so I was forced to modify the gears a bit:



The left is a baker gear the right is a vtwin.

Here's how I modified them it took FOREVER.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNfkeJ9l...en-by=ctnewman


Lastly, here's a video of me wiggling some stuff around.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN8cxS-l...en-by=ctnewman
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:56 AM   #76
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Amazing work! How do you pattern the pieces that are cast?
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Old 12-13-2016, 07:58 AM   #77
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Amazing work! How do you pattern the pieces that are cast?
They're 3D printed in wax and then investment cast. These pieces were about 600 dollars.
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Old 12-13-2016, 09:55 AM   #78
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Here's a picture that very well illustrates why I'm going through all this hard work. WIDTH.

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Old 12-13-2016, 11:20 AM   #79
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How many pounds of preload are on those springs for the kicker return? Main reason I'm asking is I'm wondering how far up your ass that pulley cap is going to go if that cable be decides to let go? Lol!!! Really well thought out and nice work btw
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:20 AM   #80
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Amazing work man, your attention to detail and the obscene baffles me. That's seriously skinny. Like Rezi I've modified kickers to be angled inward and less obtrusive but your level of detail is unreal.

Cannot wait to see this beast together. I hope it's going to run on injection and not a carb.. that would be a let down!!! haha.
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:47 AM   #81
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How many pounds of preload are on those springs for the kicker return? Main reason I'm asking is I'm wondering how far up your ass that pulley cap is going to go if that cable be decides to let go? Lol!!! Really well thought out and nice work btw
Haha! It's only about 100 linear lbs.

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Amazing work man, your attention to detail and the obscene baffles me. That's seriously skinny. Like Rezi I've modified kickers to be angled inward and less obtrusive but your level of detail is unreal.

Cannot wait to see this beast together. I hope it's going to run on injection and not a carb.. that would be a let down!!! haha.
I was going to run injection but I think in order to make it "clean" in going to use a carb.
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:25 PM   #82
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Sick sick sick

All your parts are artworks
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:15 AM   #83
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great work mate, you are certainly thinking out side the box..... except for the trans, that was thinking inside the box....
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:52 AM   #84
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Shined some shit up and smoothed out the gearbox kicker cover face in a few spots...





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Old 12-15-2016, 01:01 PM   #85
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I cant tell what that is anymore....could be a pizza.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:45 PM   #86
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i just want to know what planet newman was abducted to to come up with these ideas and skill
newman you are way out of the box in a good way
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:44 PM   #87
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I think he bought the whole unit at Walmart. My sister's husband's brother's daughter's niece said that had 'em on BlackFriday deal for $37.
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:56 PM   #88
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A guy once saw my turbo shovel and told me his buddy had one just like it...
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:05 PM   #89
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A guy once saw my turbo shovel and told me his buddy had one just like it...
We took my buddy's black '29 Ford Roadster to a car show and a guy walked up and said " I had one just like it except it was red and it was a '67 Chevelle........
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:30 PM   #90
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I was at a bar once and a guy said "that girl you're with looks like my wife." The story gets fuzzy until I woke up in the gutter bleeding.
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:55 PM   #91
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I had my chopped 46 chevy coupe at a show once and a sweet little old grandma walked up and peered in the back quarter window at the seat and headliner. Then said "yup, thats what I remember them looking like". I spewed milkshake out of my nose.
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Old 12-16-2016, 04:48 PM   #92
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looks great
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:07 PM   #93
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You better step up your game newman. A week ago jaws was this close to setting his pan on fire cause he was soo blown away.
Guess what?
I just saw that pan on instagram.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:43 PM   #94
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You better step up your game newman. A week ago jaws was this close to setting his pan on fire cause he was soo blown away.
Guess what?
I just saw that pan on instagram.
Wasn't on chopperswapper, was it?

Honestly, the biggest compliment I could ever receive was not that something I did was good, but that it inspired someone else to try harder.

I made an internal throttle this weekend, but I don't know if I love it.

In the mean time, here are some allen nuts that I spiffed up a bit.

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Old 12-19-2016, 02:56 PM   #95
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Machinists paradise! I also saw that one that had been in a fire, built by somebody pretty well known wasn't it!
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:46 PM   #96
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I made an internal throttle this weekend, but I don't know if I love it.
We need to see this NOW!
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:01 PM   #97
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It's just a remake of a biker's choice one with tighter tolerances and made from SS so I can weld it to my bars.

It's really nothing special.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:16 PM   #98
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It's really nothing special.
A bit modest, I'm sure it's a work of art?
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:49 PM   #99
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It's really nothing special.
Its likely polished to within an inch of its life tho...

And really, your build are inspiring to not get blocked with basic barriers and keep "building the dream"... as it were.
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:34 AM   #100
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Wasn't on chopperswapper, was it?

Honestly, the biggest compliment I could ever receive was not that something I did was good, but that it inspired someone else to try harder.

I made an internal throttle this weekend, but I don't know if I love it.

In the mean time, here are some allen nuts that I spiffed up a bit.

No, not on chopper swapper or on real fire. Impressed to the max fer sure. Im not the only one.
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Old 12-22-2016, 12:01 PM   #101
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Wasn't on chopperswapper, was it?

Honestly, the biggest compliment I could ever receive was not that something I did was good, but that it inspired someone else to try harder.

I made an internal throttle this weekend, but I don't know if I love it.

In the mean time, here are some allen nuts that I spiffed up a bit.

I just thought you got too many pats on your back.
So i tried to make joke.
You deserve all pats and thumbs up you get dont get me wrong.
To be perfectly honest your work makes me jealous.
Your an engineer doing this as an hobby. Im an shopmachinist prowelder carving things out of metal for a living and i think you weld as good as or even better than me.
And i cant make those castings you made for the frame. And so on.
Polishing skills na na, dont care.
My envy is the greatest compliment i can give you.
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:18 PM   #102
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Well, I just killed an entire evening reading though your thread. I almost never check the JJ anymore, but jumped on here looking for a good 4 speed rebuild thread....which, I still need to look for.

I follow your Instagram page, and I gotta say, this is just some outstanding work! I kinda feel like that 8 year old kid changing in the YMCA locker room for the first time...I was pretty stoked on my shit, until I took a peek at yours!

Man, you're killing it...I love it.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:31 AM   #103
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Thanks!

I got the headlight mounted, but I couldn't get any pictures to really show anything.

Here is a gif I made:

And since the quality of that is shit, here are two videos:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOYjYcSF...en-by=ctnewman

https://www.instagram.com/p/BOYiMqqF...en-by=ctnewman
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:51 AM   #104
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wow - excellent work -
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:20 AM   #105
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Pretty radical if you ask me! now to get the engine in it!!
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:00 AM   #106
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Show winner for sure,but is there gonna be any colors? like gas tank paint job or?
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:02 AM   #107
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Unreal. Just when you think you have seen it all someone builds frame and front end like this.

Are you going to polish the frame weldings or leave them "colored" like they are now?
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:56 AM   #108
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Show winner for sure,but is there gonna be any colors? like gas tank paint job or?
There will be paint on the tank and fender. Probably something simple though. I want the metal to do the talking, not the paint.

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Unreal. Just when you think you have seen it all someone builds frame and front end like this.

Are you going to polish the frame weldings or leave them "colored" like they are now?
Thanks. The only thing separating this frame from a chrome frame is those welds, so I'm going to leave them as long as possible. Over time they may start to look shitty and will have to be polished.
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:12 AM   #109
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Where you have added the solid decorative pieces in the frame there is are black transition marks almost like threads or something? Knurling?
Thanks for posting your work!
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:17 AM   #110
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Last night I blended the case so it matches up to the kicker lid. It's annoying to me that the hole that locks the shiftershaft from the top of the case is not covered by the lid. Also, the case was a little cut back under the lid at the front right corner, but these are things I can live with.

Also added some holes for clutch linkage mounting and tapped a few things for plugging, like the shifter shaft right side hole. Speedo drive hole will become new fill plug, so i tapped that to M18-2.5 (the hole is .625 and the M18-2.5 tap drill is .610, close enough for a no-load fitting). (blending isn't complete in this picture)



Then I smoothed out the whole case for bead blasting. I thought about doing a full polish on it, but I think the contrast of the blasted case to the polished lid and new kicker will look good. Plus I don't want people to be distractd from the engineering by a shined up stockish case.



I did notice that my case (while new) has a .002 taper on the countershaft holes (I could put in a stock cshaft bushing about 1/3 of the way by hand) and the MDG race is oversize by about .0015 ( a STD Jims race could also be installed completely by hand), so I dropped it off to my trusty local harley machine shop in Lockport, NY (BA Enterprises) to line hone these areas. I didn't contact Cal because I didn't buy the case direct from him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DANGER View Post
Where you have added the solid decorative pieces in the frame there is are black transition marks almost like threads or something? Knurling?
Thanks for posting your work!
Those are titanium rings that someone gave me and thought they would make a cool Easter Egg to discover.
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Old 12-28-2016, 08:29 AM   #111
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Those are titanium rings that someone gave me and thought they would make a cool Easter Egg to discover.
I was wondering about those.

Saw your reddit thread, btw. Amazed you've gotten such a positive response from that crowd.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:16 AM   #112
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Saw your reddit thread, btw. Amazed you've gotten such a positive response from that crowd.
Once they realize it doesn't have a front brake it'll be downvote city...
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:20 AM   #113
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...or that it's not a Ninja 300 and that you don't wear a helmet and it's going to be powered by a Harley...
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:17 AM   #114
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If you're getting positive feedback on reddit you're on to a winner they're a savage bunch. As Gov has said though no flashy sports exhaust or 'Jap' racing power you'll get shot in flames. That frame looks too nice to be used!
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:04 AM   #115
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Polished up the clutch release fork. Polishing hardened 17-4PH is a pain but it came out pretty nice. Also machines it to accept a cable, but I am not positive how that's going to work yet.



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Old 12-29-2016, 10:30 AM   #116
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What tools do you use for polish?
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:39 AM   #117
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What tools do you use for polish?
The majority is done with a dynafile (pneumatic) and various belts. A blue belt with black rouge removes stock pretty quick without digging in. All the final polishing is done on a pedestal buffer.
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Old 12-29-2016, 01:08 PM   #118
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What tools do you use for polish?
A lot of elbow grease!

17-4 polishes up nicely.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:12 PM   #119
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What kind of bushings or bearings are you running those pivots? You may have said and I have forgotten...
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:31 AM   #120
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The majority is done with a dynafile (pneumatic) and various belts. A blue belt with black rouge removes stock pretty quick without digging in. All the final polishing is done on a pedestal buffer.
Thank you i always have polishing trouble lol
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:41 PM   #121
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What kind of bushings or bearings are you running those pivots? You may have said and I have forgotten...
I'd have to check my receipts but it think I settled on 932
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:44 PM   #122
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Awesome build. Could you post a link to the Reddit thread?
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:56 PM   #123
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Very impressive work. can't wait to see more.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:55 PM   #124
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Damn man, just found your build thread...insane work, looks amazing!
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:04 AM   #125
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Updates.

Been spending a lot of time designing some taillights/sissy bar. (I think I have about 50 hours into the design at this point... But I did manage to get some physical work done...

Got some parts back from the plater. Had them done w/ electroless nickel, primarily because I needed a very thin coating on most of the parts as they were press fit (goes on about .0002-.0006 and very controllable), but secondly I think it will contrast well with all of the polished stainless... I don't want to use much (if any) chrome on this build).



Next I put my rear wheel together. The rear hubs had moved a bit from heat treat and the plating made them a little undersize, but a quick hand ream made them right on again.



Then I whipped up some rear wheel spacers in a nice concave shape and polished them, but you will never see them. Then I threw the rear wheel on. No pixxx but here is a video:

https://youtu.be/jSioPbc8W7s

Then I made some girder spring locators (that you will probably never ever see) from polished SS:



Which allowed me to get the front end together. Here is my stem nut (made from 1145 hardened to HRC 51 with a stainless cap). It is locked into place with two 12 point locking screws that align with reliefs in the nut flange. In order to have the correct torque and correct alignment, I have .003" SS shims under the nut. Practical?? No... not really. But good for this bike.



Theseare some headlight bracket mounting bolts I cleaned up. I don't think there is currently any hardware on the bike that I haven't made or modified in some way.



Then I got the rest of the front end assembled. Don't have any detail pics of that, but I did take this picture of the axle nut/hub/axle/lock screws:



And finally here is a picture of the whole bike. Feels great to have it on wheels (last time it was on wheels it was tack welded and loosely bolted together and just felt terrible). I don't think I will need to remove the front wheel or the fork for anything at this point.




LASTLY: can someone please change the title of the thread to "1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

Thanks, because I will need all the support I can get in this contest.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:10 AM   #126
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Looks so good man!!

You know... what's really going to kick your ass here more than any of your fine machine work? Paint!!! and tank.. the bane of every bikers life.

I assume even though this is for PC5 you're going to use it? Show bikes are ace but when people roll them out of a truck and never use them a kitten dies.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:16 AM   #127
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yeah. I'm not even sure what kind of paint it will be but I think it is going to be fairly simple. I don't want a crazy chopper paint. I want people to look at the metal not the paint.

And yes, I ride everything.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:08 AM   #128
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I think the world needs more pale yellow bikes. Great underrated colour!

Good to hear!!
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:17 AM   #129
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yeah. I'm not even sure what kind of paint it will be but I think it is going to be fairly simple. I don't want a crazy chopper paint. I want people to look at the metal not the paint.

And yes, I ride everything.
For traditional derelict chopper style in contrast to all of your amazing polished metalwork, I would like to see good ol' basic black tins.

I've been watching this build since the fork-only thread. I'm not really a fan of girders, but hand-made anything catches my attention. Stainless made it more appealing, as did the drivetrain choice pre-modifications, and your design, fabrication, attention to detail & willingness to shitcan ideas that took hours and even days of labour is awe-inspiring. Amazing build.

I'll go back to watching silently.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:23 AM   #130
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yeah. I'm not even sure what kind of paint it will be but I think it is going to be fairly simple. I don't want a crazy chopper paint. I want people to look at the metal not the paint.

And yes, I ride everything.
First instinct on tank color: deep pearl black

I'll hush up now.

Alex
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:24 AM   #131
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Are you going to have to deflate the rear tire to get it out of the rear stays? It looks that way in the video but may just be an optical illusion.

I guess if a star hub is ~4" wide between flanges, that plus spacers would be a normal 18" rear tire width? Assuming your one-off hubs are in the same zip code dimension-wise...
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:29 AM   #132
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For traditional derelict chopper style in contrast to all of your amazing polished metalwork, I would like to see good ol' basic black tins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerAlex View Post
First instinct on tank color: deep pearl black

I'll hush up now.

Alex
Without having the tins on the bike to visualize, A thought I was having was half black, half white, split down the middle, but I'm not decided on anything yet. It will only be one or both of those two colors, though. I don't intend on having any color aside from the taillights. The wheels are black and white, want to carry that theme throughout.

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Are you going to have to deflate the rear tire to get it out of the rear stays? It looks that way in the video but may just be an optical illusion.

I guess if a star hub is ~4" wide between flanges, that plus spacers would be a normal 18" rear tire width? Assuming your one-off hubs are in the same zip code dimension-wise...
The sprocket and rotor are essentially at shovelhead spacing. The axle from tip to tip is less than the inside dimension of a panhead swingarm.

But yes, the tire does need to be deflated to get it out. Axle plate inside width is 5"
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:00 PM   #133
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Your black and white
Going by your rims ?


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Old 01-09-2017, 12:08 PM   #134
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Your black and white
Going by your rims ?
My heritage? No I am half danish half german.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:32 PM   #135
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A methodical Viking, then.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #136
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I had the privilege of meeting Christian on the weekend in Toronto ON at the bike show. I will say he is a very humble man. As a person who does this stuff for a living. This man has more talent in his one finger than I do in my whole shop. I've been following this thread quite closely and was blown away when I got to meet the man in person. From all of us at the freedom machine booth, Thank you for stopping in. Letting us waste your time with our mediocre shit. Keep up the good work, because in my opinion you sir are going to be if you are not already. one of the best bike builders in the world.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:42 PM   #137
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My heritage? No I am half danish half german.
half danish half russian here! almost.. haha.

Black and white would work.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:58 PM   #138
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Wow. The sprocket and disc outside of the frame came out so perfect.


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Old 01-09-2017, 04:27 PM   #139
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LASTLY: can someone please change the title of the thread to "1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

Thanks, because I will need all the support I can get in this contest.
Name change done!

Roller looks incredible, so much time and work going into this build, very refreshing, keep it going.
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:28 AM   #140
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Don't know who champ and his people are but whatever you won.
Sick shit man.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:44 AM   #141
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Awesome stuff dude as I said to you before.
I dont get tired of looking back and forwards through this whole thread and/or your IG.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:33 AM   #142
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Thanks everybody. It is flattering as hell. I don't think I deserve accolades of this magnitude, but it sure makes me smile and pushes me on.

Last night I spent all night bending up sissy bar parts. I made another one of my wood dies (in 8" CLR) so I had some nice sweeping bends. My original plan was to use 3/4 tube (instead of the "standard" 5/8 rod) to match the tubing on the girder. Well I bent up all the pieces and then took a step back. Too big. Definitely too big. I was thinking it would look beefy, but it just looked dumb, so I am going to remake it in 5/8. It is about 3 feet tall (from the axle plate).

More later. Since the next one will be rod, I will probably just use the standard "bending board" vs the bender.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:45 AM   #143
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Thanks everybody. It is flattering as hell. I don't think I deserve accolades of this magnitude, but it sure makes me smile and pushes me on.

Last night I spent all night bending up sissy bar parts. I made another one of my wood dies (in 8" CLR) so I had some nice sweeping bends. My original plan was to use 3/4 tube (instead of the "standard" 5/8 rod) to match the tubing on the girder. Well I bent up all the pieces and then took a step back. Too big. Definitely too big. I was thinking it would look beefy, but it just looked dumb, so I am going to remake it in 5/8. It is about 3 feet tall (from the axle plate).

More later. Since the next one will be rod, I will probably just use the standard "bending board" vs the bender.
Interesting concept, would be fun to see it still (though I believe you that it would look bulky). Makes me think of the Ewe Ehinger BF8 knucklehead, with the 1.75" exhaust routed as a "sissy bar"
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:18 AM   #144
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I wrote this up for a DIY forum, so it may seem very simplified, but I just copied and pasted. Deal w/ ittttttttt….

When people hear "Bird Deflector", they probably think it's some sort of windshield or fairing for a motorcycle, colloquially however, a bird deflector is a carburetor inlet cover designed to keep giant things (birds) out of your engine. I run one on my 59 Panhead that looks like this. That little finned johnson between the "pans". There are a zillion of these on the market today, but I wanted something that was just a hair bigger than the small one I have on the pan. (about 10% bigger). There is no air cleaner used, so you suck in all the dirt and dust, but you keep out the pant legs and birds.

Started out with a hunk of 1/2" thick 316SS and a pattern I drew in cad. I punched 3 reference marks.

Then used a compass to make the shape. I decided at the last minute to not round the end of the teardrop.

Cut it out (slowly) on the vertical bandsaw. When cutting SS this thick I run the saw blade at about 90 surface feet per minute. That's essentially the velocity of the tooth.

Then sanded to final shape with a very coarse grit (24) vertical belt sander.

Then I carefully started sanding the edges, taking care to make sure the sanding was symmetrical and consistent.

A little deeper. Trying to make a ridge build up at the point of part. This took extra attention. For this part of the sanding I am using an angle grinder with a 24 grit wheel.

More sanding. Try to use as many reference areas as possible. When doing this i was conscious of both the edge "thickness" remaining, as well as ensuring that new the teardrop of the top plane was evenly offset from the outside edge.

Up until now, all of the sanding has been on the same plane. Usually when rounding parts, I'll try to make one major cut on a plane that's tangent to where I need to remove the most material (though this is a big estimate).

Here's an example: For rounding a 90 degree corner by eye, I will take a big cut at 45 degrees

Then two more smaller cuts on the new edges I create

This method works best when you can scribe a circle on the edge needing to be cut, but by eye it's good too.

Using this method gets you a pretty nice shape, even when just doing it by eye. I know this sort of seems obvious, but for a long time when I would try to round corners I would stick the part up against the belt and start rocking it back and forth and my corners always looked a little wonky. Secret message: Helicopter Dick. Doing it this way really makes a difference. The bird deflector was a little different. My first cut was probably around 30 degrees off horizontal, but changed a bit as I got toward the rear.

A little more sanding on a new plane.

Then I started using a dynafile, which is the best tool on the planet for metal fabrication, as far as I am concerned. You can see it in the background here. They are not cheap (about 500 bucks) but it is amazing. There are tons of belts available, but I use 60/120/240/400 and blue scotch brite the most. However, I think this pic was shot after using a 36 grit belt. Note that the electric version of this tool is FAR inferior to its pneumatic counterpart. It just cant spin fast enough to be effective in my opinion.

I use model: 14000

But it's also important to have contact arm: 11234 which allows you to smooth parts better.

More dynafile work. 120 grit.

Then I used a scotchbrite blue belt on the dynafile to blend the major sanding marks and see how my shaping was.

Looks pretty good.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:18 AM   #145
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Making sure the raised ridge was centered and straight was critical.

It needed a little "flair" so I put it in the bridgeport (non-CNC) mill and cut some little steps in it. I roughed them in with a 3/4 roughing endmill at about 200 RPM (this pic) then radiused them with a 3/8 ball nose endmill.

Ok, I know a few steps got skipped here, but all I did was smooth out my cuts from the endmill with a blue dynafile belt, then used a pedestal buffer...

Like this. It's important to make sure you are running the correct SFM for your buffing wheel, (I run mine about 5000). To calculate SFM take your buffer's output speed and multiply it by your buffing wheel diameter and then by PI/12. In this case 1800 X 12 X 3.14/12 = 5652. I just bought some larger wheels to really get the SFM up there, so I'm excited to try those.

First you use a sisal wheel with black rouge (this will remove the dynafile scotchbrite scratches if you're dilligent and use a lot of rouge).

Then I do final polish with a spiral sewn wheel and green rouge. You can go one step further and use an open buff, but I find it doesn't do all that much on my stainless stuff, which is usually pretty curvy. I think for largely flat things you'd see it more.

Shiny.

Hope you enjoyed the trip! One thing to note is that every bird deflector I have ever seen mounts with bolts through the front, but I'm trying to avoid that and am devising a way to mount it with no visible bolts. It will be mounted with the point facing the rear of the motorcycle.
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Old 01-20-2017, 10:24 AM   #146
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Wow. Beautiful looking piece. I dig the little steps.


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Old 01-20-2017, 11:20 AM   #147
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love that deflector man!

Not a huge fan of them, like my link too much to cover it, but that's a lovely piece of work.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:58 PM   #148
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

Updates.

So I needed to make a sissy bar. Here's some of the process.

Make a drawing and tape it to some metal:



Punch important holes:



Drill some of the important holes.



Use some marking dye and a scribe for the other ones:



Take some randome shit metal:



And make a bending spool. This will keep your sissy from smooshing around the tight top bend. Note, this was made on a manual lathe by making stepped cuts then sanding:



Weld that shit to your sissy jig:



Make a bending die for the center. Step one, make a pattern and trace it onto a board. Then clamp it to a second board and drill a bunch of holes. This can be easily done on a drill press:



Bolt two boards together:



Sand bolted boards smooth:



If you are using 1/2, 3/4, 1 or 1.5 tube/rod, you can skip this step, but I had to regrind a router bit from R3/8:



To R5/16:



Use a router to take a 1/4 round out of half of your die:



Then bolt it back together:



Bolt your die to your sissy fixture and start bending. The top bend went great. The die shown in this picture didn't work out:



But this new one did:



Not shown are two more dies I made for the bottom. But it bent up pretty good. The top is super tight and nearly perfect. Not smooshed flat at all.




The top is actually a little long, about 1/4", but that doesn't matter:



Next I scabbed together some scrap to bend the top at the same time. This worked well.

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Old 01-23-2017, 02:58 PM   #149
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Unfortunately no pics before polishing, but here's a video from after polish:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPY1sVTF...en-by=ctnewman


Next I made some sissy bar mounting brackets for the axle plates. Started with 1/2" 316 plate:



Cut a little Z into it, that I would never be able to bend:



Made a socket on the lathe and welded it on:



Then polished them up. L&R:



Then a bunch of stuff happened and I bolted a spare transmission and my engine cases with a flywheel and pinion shaft to the bike and test fit a chain/belt... more on the primary belt in a few days.... I have some issues...



Love this view. I have been sweating whether or not it will look too "gimmicky" with the external drive but in my opinion it doesn't. Much respect to the work that CWZON did on his turbo knucklehead, but I didn't want to have the bike look this "wacky".



I think I have successfully avoided wacky, and in my opinion just made it unusual. What're you guys thinking to that point?





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Old 01-23-2017, 04:04 PM   #150
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I think I have successfully avoided wacky, and in my opinion just made it unusual. What're you guys thinking to that point?
I think its a great balance... and balanced is a very good aestetic ideal IMHO.

So much so that I think many people, especially the uninitiated, will not really "See" it so much as notice the overall effect it has on the bike's stance and feel. Perfect.
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Old 01-23-2017, 05:42 PM   #151
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I hated the idea of sprocky and rotor on the outside when I first saw this comin' together, but I like it in practice much better than in theory.

My taste really sucks. I need to have things jammed down my throat. What's the plan for a fender?
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:04 PM   #152
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Did Helicopter Dick help you with this build in some way?
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:27 AM   #153
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Cool as fuck dude!
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Old 01-24-2017, 03:01 AM   #154
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Looks Good.
but maybe a little dangerous for your Pillion passenger (chain guard?)
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:13 AM   #155
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

looks great! ...but i still can't get with the handlebars, something just doesn't work there (imo)
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:37 AM   #156
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looks great! ...but i still can't get with the handlebars, something just doesn't work there (imo)
At this point they're just a placeholder. Having something there is better than nothing. The top part of the bars will be probably one of the last things.

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Did Helicopter Dick help you with this build in some way?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by govmule84 View Post
I hated the idea of sprocky and rotor on the outside when I first saw this comin' together, but I like it in practice much better than in theory.

My taste really sucks. I need to have things jammed down my throat. What's the plan for a fender?
I was a little nervous about it, but I was committed right out the gate so I had to stick with it. I am happy I did, because otherwise I think it would just be more of the same. I like having some engineering involved in the build.

For the fender, I have a twinrib unit from easyriders japan. I don't see them very often. I really wanted to make my own tins for this build, but I think that's going to have to wait for another bike. I won't be modifying this much, but I will be probably do a lot of work to whatever tank shell I start with.

In fact, here is a picture of the fender I took last night after making the seatstay brace/fender mount/oil tank mount. I really need to repolish the seatstay tubes, I really scratched them to hell sitting on the frame and making chopper sounds. Anyway, this part you will never see, but I'll know it's there. I also wanted to try turning something and bending it. I like trying new things. I really wish I had sone something more uniquie for the rear trans crossover.





In case you are wondering how that was made on all manual equipment:







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Old 01-24-2017, 07:39 AM   #157
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Beautiful work newnam! ....ill go back to lurking here.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:56 AM   #158
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newnam
I laughed out loud at this typo. I need more sleep.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:02 AM   #159
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doh! made me chuckle too... I need more coffee.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:32 AM   #160
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Looks great. The frame lines are very good and the bars front and back work well with the frame. I might maybe just lay the sissy bar back a touch more to line up better with the fork, but that depends if the angle works for the seat or not. I really like the outside drive. Can't wait to see what the pipes might look like... This bike is a work of art.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:44 AM   #161
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A bit of technical information I thought I'd add about the driveline.

The whole frame was designed around being able to run a 40T rear sprocket. Secondly, I really wanted to run a BDL "quiet clutch" drive, because it's substantially narrower than the stock clutch hub, since the clutch goes inside the pulley instead of next to it.

Unfortunately, there are two problems with this. The BDL quiet clutch drive is a 45/68 setup, and it only comes with splined front pulleys. I could get around the spline by running a later sprocket shaft, but I was trying to run the tapered shaft. So I thought, I'll just run a 39T BDL front pulley for a knuck and a mix it with the rear pulley.

My shovelhead (and many other bikes) run a 41/61 primary and a 24/48 final. I like that ratio.

41/61 X 24/48 = .336

Since I was now locked in with 3 of my pulleys, I could adjust the fourth to match.

Turns out that

39/68 * 23/40 = .329

Pretty close.

So I went ahead and designed the frame that way. The size of the front pulley had a lot to do with where the frame rails were located and so on. Also, using a smaller front pulley made the transmission move back to about 13.5" vs the standard 12 13/16

Then, tragedy stuck. This past weekend, when I was installing the drive, I noticed that the belt did not fit on the front pulley. Dang.

I spent a lot of time doing some research (also called BDL but they were little to no help). Turns out the knuckdrives use a gates HTD toothprofile and the other drive style uses a Powergrip GT2 profile.

BDL said they would not make a custom pulley. Where I am at right now is I have a Gates 40T taper lock pulley that I am going to adapt to the knuck tapered shaft. It’s nut ugly, per se, but it’s not awesome looking. I think if I have it plated, it will look a lot better. I am going to try to get it on tonight and see how it looks. More later.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:40 PM   #162
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As a cabinetmaker by trade I love your use of wood as a former. Especially Oak being my favorite wood to work with.

I would guess that running the grain from left to right instead of top to bottom meant that the end grain gave the former more staying power under the heat of the metal.

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Old 01-24-2017, 12:47 PM   #163
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One of those companies sells interchangeable engine-pulley hubs. With that as my inspiration I turned down a worn-out pulley for the splined center, leaving a flange with threaded holes to make a 530 front sprocket. So why couldn't someone of your talents salvage a tapered hub and graft it (welds, bolts or otherwise) to the chosen pulley. But if you spent the time and wound up with a plan to modify a taperlock I am not telling you anything that probably hasnt crossed your mind.

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Old 01-24-2017, 01:14 PM   #164
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As a cabinetmaker by trade I love your use of wood as a former. Especially Oak being my favorite wood to work with.

I would guess that running the grain from left to right instead of top to bottom meant that the end grain gave the former more staying power under the heat of the metal.
The die actually didn't fail, the radius was just too great for the for do bend smoothly. I was having to heat up 8" of material and it just wasn't consistent enough.


Quote:
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One of those companies sells interchangeable engine-pulley hubs. With that as my inspiration I turned down a worn-out pulley for the splined center, leaving a flange with threaded holes to make a 530 front sprocket. So why couldn't someone of your talents salvage a tapered hub and graft it (welds, bolts or otherwise) to the chosen pulley. But if you spent the time and wound up with a plan to modify a taperlock I am not telling you anything that probably hasnt crossed your mind.
That's basically what I am doing, there's just a third piece involved.

Original turned down hub is inside the taper lock bushing and that is inside the new pulley. I did get a steel taper lock bushing so I could weld it to the old pulley inner if needed.

This may just be temporary until I can come up with a better solution. I need to have the trans position nailed down ASAP so I can start getting the fender mounted permanently and begin construction on the oil tank.

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Old 01-24-2017, 04:48 PM   #165
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Does anyone have any opinions on using very short hardlines on a harley?

Remember that my oil lines essentially run thru the frame. So there would be about 6 oil lines with a banjo on each end that are only between 4 and 6 inches long. I would really prefer to not have to cram a rubber line in there if I don't have to.

Ideally I would like to use mild steel lines silver soldered into mild steel banjo fittings like this:

https://www.belmetric.com/solder-ban...42vdp8ho8vb5q1



The engineer in me says it will probably fail on a high runtime application, but if I'm being real, the total hours on this machine will be pretty low.

Anyone have any input to add?

The other option would be something like this with a rubber line, but I just think the hardline would look really clean.

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Old 01-24-2017, 05:21 PM   #166
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Would there be an elegant way to put a short piece inline for vibration isolation? Likely not, because they're so short... but something like a stainless flex-hose section in exhausts.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:10 PM   #167
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newman Not saying you math is wrong. But in automotive terms the equation is usually expressed. (61/41)X(48/24)=2.97= final drive ratio
Then 1 engine rev / 2.97 = .336 rear wheel revolution. Which is as your equation showed.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:00 AM   #168
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The original fuel line on my 39 was rigid(flared unions)
but i think the T/Y is brazed.
Oil lines rigid too but obviously no connections(brazed) in them.
No problem if no vibration?
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Old 01-25-2017, 05:50 AM   #169
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

In the old days they used to bend a little coil of hard line at the end of the line to soak up the vibrations between two devices, like an engine and a frame for example
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:31 AM   #170
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Wish you could buy that ripple section of pipe that turbo drains on OEM cars often used, pictured at top:

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Old 01-25-2017, 09:32 AM   #171
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newman Not saying you math is wrong. But in automotive terms the equation is usually expressed. (61/41)X(48/24)=2.97= final drive ratio
Then 1 engine rev / 2.97 = .336 rear wheel revolution. Which is as your equation showed.

I figured it was improper convention, but I knew as long as I kept consistent, I'd be OK.
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:24 PM   #172
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it is good to see the steady progress of this build, thanks for posting
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Old 01-25-2017, 01:29 PM   #173
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i rigid mounted some oil lines many years ago without any issues, but I used copper tube which seemed less fragile with vibration than steel
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Old 01-25-2017, 04:21 PM   #174
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Has anyone ever used 5/16 diameter hardlines on an early bigtwin?

The orifices on the 1/8 npt fittings are always smaller that that ID. I'm going to maybe mock up a little flowbench to test. Just curious on any real world experience.
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Old 01-25-2017, 04:52 PM   #175
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Wish you could buy that ripple section of pipe that turbo drains on OEM cars often used, pictured at top:
Ha, yeah turbo plumbing was exactly the picture I had in my head...
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:16 AM   #176
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Has anyone ever used 5/16 diameter hardlines on an early bigtwin?

The orifices on the 1/8 npt fittings are always smaller that that ID. I'm going to maybe mock up a little flowbench to test. Just curious on any real world experience.
The restriction's resistance to flow is basically proportional to its length, so a short little small diameter at the fitting give a small amount of restriction, but a long, small diameter pipe give a much higher amount of restriction, and might need a bigger pump or higher pressure to get the same amount of flow. This is the reason that you often see a small orifice in a fitting or a port, and a much larger hose or tube. The small restriction controls the way it flows while the larger line reduces the pumping losses. For example you can squeeze honey through a 1/8" hole in the cap of its squeeze bottle, but try to squeeze honey through a seven inch long, 1/8" hose (the same size hole, but very long) and it is virtually impossible to get any honey through it. I could cite other examples of size of hole and length of hole but they would likely not be published here.

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Old 01-26-2017, 09:23 AM   #177
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Lost me on the honey thing
Squeeze honey on a 6" long hose?
With 6" hole?



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Old 01-26-2017, 09:26 AM   #178
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The restriction's resistance to flow is basically proportional to its length, so a short little small diameter at the fitting give a small amount of restriction, but a long, small diameter pipe give a much higher amount of restriction, and might need a bigger pump or higher pressure to get the same amount of flow. This is the reason that you often see a small orifice in a fitting or a port, and a much larger hose or tube. The small restriction controls the way it flows while the larger line reduces the pumping losses. For example you can squeeze honey through a small hole in a bottle's cap or lid, but try to squeeze honey through a six inch long hose the same size and it is virtually impossible. I could cite other examples of size of hole and length of hole but they would likely not be published here.
Completely agree. At some point the hose diameter become negligible, I wonder where that point is.

Based on some hotbikeweb testing, a twincam only uses 8 oz cold at idle, 0 oz hot at idle, 18.5 oz at 2500 rpm.

I imagine that a knucklehead uses much less. Anyway, I think I am going to do timed test at some point and see how the two react.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:01 AM   #179
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Completely agree. At some point the hose diameter become negligible, I wonder where that point is.

Based on some hotbikeweb testing, a twincam only uses 8 oz cold at idle, 0 oz hot at idle, 18.5 oz at 2500 rpm.

I imagine that a knucklehead uses much less. Anyway, I think I am going to do timed test at some point and see how the two react.
Hey, maybe I can teach YOU something here; wouldn't have bet on that! Twin Cams are high-pressure, low volume pumps. Our old bikes (Evo and back) are just the opposite... High volume, low pressure.

I suspect our pumps move WAY more fluid than a Twin Cam. Hook up a return line to an idling Evo-or-older Big Twin... gonna be a hell of a lot more oil than 8 oz. at idle.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:16 AM   #180
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Hmm, makes sense really, although in their test their isn't any high pressure component, so it is really a pretty poor test of that type of pump. I am still interested in testing a configuration that goes

.21 to .38 hose to .21 for stock versus
.21 to .31 hard tube to .21 for what i'd like to run

under gravity flow conditions. I will post the results. I have heard of some aftermarket hardline kits having .25ID, but that's a bit of hearsay.
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:33 AM   #181
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Thanks for posting your work. It is so artful and well done, it makes my work work look downright pedestrian However, it is inspiring to look at, and does indeed make me want to raise my game up a level or three Keep the updates coming
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:45 AM   #182
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I can't say on a knuckle. But on a cone shovel if you add a cooler and smaller lines there is enough restriction that at high sustained revs (85 +mph) oil return to tank will be insufficient. The engine will puke oil out the breather line as the pump will not be able to scavenge enough oil when being restricted by the small lines.
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Old 01-30-2017, 12:14 PM   #183
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More videos, sorry.

I made a banjo bolt with an extra mount on top to mount my lower fender brace to.

Oil path is: Feed: Oil tank > connecting line > right chainstay > right frame bottom tube > oil pump
Return: Oil Pump > right frame bottom tube (in front of blockage) > right downtube > neck gusset tube front crossover > left downtube > left bottom tube > left chainstay > connector tube > oil tank
Vent line: Engine > seat tube > oil tank

Here's a video: https://www.instagram.com/p/BPvz8djl...en-by=ctnewman

The I made the mount itself. Here's another video with some humor added in: https://www.instagram.com/p/BP1KoY6l...en-by=ctnewman

Here are some crappy pictures of the mount:





Here is how I temporarily(?) solved my mismatched drive cogs. Turned down a pulley and mixed it with an off the shelf industrial drive cog and taper lock bushing, then added a 30mm (~1 3/16) drive belt (rated for 75 HP at SF2.) I'll try and get something better later on, but this allowed me to set the rear wheel where I needed it so I could continue working.



Nothing is really lined up in this picture.



Since the rear wheel was now located I was able to weld on the two fender mounts:





And that allowed me to roll my bike around the shop while sitting on it and making chopper sounds.



Next up I am starting to build an oil tank. I needed to make a die to roll some 1" SCH10 pipe to 7.6" CLR. I tried making one yesterday that didn't have a steel backing plate... well, that failed terribly. Try again tonight. Never built an oil tank, so this will be a fun new challenge. I probably won't post pics until it is done, it'll probably take me all week. Or longer.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:22 PM   #184
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

thats great as always newman, but why not an oilfilter?
If i used the frame as oil lines id sure would use one, as debris from cutting the pipes, welds and from the manufacturing of the pipes themselfes otherwise could wind up in the engine clogging and starving something of oil.
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:44 PM   #185
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I wouldn't be surprised if there was plans for a dirtbike style filter element engineered into the oil bag such that it was basically invisible, without needing a cartridge filter turd bolted to the bike somewhere...

But, I'm just armchair designing/engineering anyhow..
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Old 01-30-2017, 01:57 PM   #186
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My plan is to run a temporary oil filter for the first couple hundred miles to get all the bullshit out and then take it off. Wasn't planning on building it into the oil tank. I haven't had any issues with my other bikes that don't have a filter, though.

While building the frame I was extra conscious of keeping debris from the tubes, and precleaned all the insides. I did all the tapping on small sections where I was able to clean the backside.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:14 PM   #187
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

Don't forget the potential of black sugar inside your tubes from tig welding. You are a excellent welder, but nobody is perfect. If you got any weld a little to hot it's there waiting to break loose and enter your engine.just thought I would mention it.
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:16 AM   #188
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

keep going, smashing it out now
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:15 PM   #189
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

Ok,
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:29 AM   #190
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

I don't feel like typing this AM after spending over 50 hours on this oiltank so I'll just let the pictures do the talking:






































Last edited by newman; 02-06-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:10 PM   #191
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

that floating bar on the oil tank -way cool and very clever. This bike is a study in great design ,thanks for taking the time out in an incredibly busy schedule to post up .cheers R
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:11 PM   #192
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truly next level fabrication, congrats.
Does the bar around the oil bag serve any purpose besides looking very fucking cool?
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Old 02-06-2017, 05:33 PM   #193
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

It wears a predatory smile!
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:21 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix View Post
truly next level fabrication, congrats.
Does the bar around the oil bag serve any purpose besides looking very fucking cool?
Strictly aesthetic. But it sort of ties into where I am going with this next post.

Stainless taillight housings that utilize some late 1940s Hudson glass lenses. The lower is the interior light, the upper is a hood side light. Before they were welded:



Then afterward. I joined them with a bar that ends at the same angle as the rod in the oil tank.









My original plan was to extend the bars right on down to the fender, but it seemed a little goofy. Sometimes the ideas in your head aren't as good in real life. I wanted to continue the line from the oil tank...





So I thought about it a little more. Made a cardboard seat profile. I think what I am going to do is not tie the sissy bar to the fender at all, but make a very rigid seat pan and run a short rod off the sissy bar and make it bolt to the side of the seat, then have the seat pan tie into the rear of the fender. I am, however, open to ideas...

Something like this:



Obviously not this simple, but just to convey the idea:

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Old 02-13-2017, 08:55 AM   #195
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Default Re: 1940 SS Knucklehead: People's Champ 5 Build"

Sir.. I bet your head does not stop thinking for a minute.
this thing is beautiful.... your vision is out of this world. love seeing all your updates here and on IG
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:41 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newman View Post
So I thought about it a little more. Made a cardboard seat profile. I think what I am going to do is not tie the sissy bar to the fender at all, but make a very rigid seat pan and run a short rod off the sissy bar and make it bolt to the side of the seat, then have the seat pan tie into the rear of the fender. I am, however, open to ideas...

Something like this:
So this might be the one original chopper idea I have ever had (and I've never executed it), but I've always wanted to do a triangulated sissy bar. Never seen one before. Looks like you're beating me to the punch.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:47 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by govmule84 View Post
So this might be the one original chopper idea I have ever had (and I've never executed it), but I've always wanted to do a triangulated sissy bar. Never seen one before. Looks like you're beating me to the punch.
Have you ever seen @snakedumpster's bike? Most rigid sissy bar I've ever seen. Though it is more of a girder than triangulated.





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Old 02-13-2017, 02:14 PM   #198
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Nope. Never seen it. But I wanted to do something like that on a slightly shorter bar with a slightly wider base.

Cool, though.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:32 PM