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Old 10-14-2015, 10:06 PM   #1
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Default Slabside Shovelhead

Just picked up a little project that I had been watching on craigslist over the last month or so. 1969 FLH motor with matching 4 speed ratchet trans. Engine and trans sit in an original, uncut Wishbone frame that was molded and painted back in the 70s. Trans has been rebuilt, as has the bottom end of the motor and the heads, but it came with most remaining parts to complete the build. Not totally sure of the direction on this one as it will be my first big twin project. More than likely try to stick with the chopper style of that time period and I have a little inspiration board tacked onto the wall of my shop. For now she sits like this until I pick up more parts, but I'm psyched to have scored this one!

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Old 10-14-2015, 10:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

That is a glorious start for sure.
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

That's a real good start right there. As far as the uncut business, I think the sidecar loops have been removed at a minimum, and the axle plate appears to have been smoothed, too. Think you're also missing a toolbox mount. That frame's been chopper-ized, but it's still cool as shit.
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Jesse your build was a big nudge in this direction, I'll be looking back at a few of your tricks for sure. Thanks guys
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

that is a hell of a nice start. can i ask what it cost ?
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Oooh... Molded chopper goodness. Are you sure its not raked? How many fingers can you fit between the down tubes and neck?
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Sweet. I just sold a 1969 Shovel motor this week. Now you're making me regret it!
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:48 AM   #8
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Oooh... Molded chopper goodness. Are you sure its not raked? How many fingers can you fit between the down tubes and neck?
I'll get back to you on that, but when I stick my fingers into the neck I can still feel where the steering lock was and I can't feel any type of weld or edge
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Congratulations! Wow very nice project! One damn cool lookin motor. I will be watching this thread.......
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:56 AM   #10
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jealous
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Nice score right there and what a great point to start from.
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Old 10-16-2015, 04:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Congrats, looks like a nice starting point.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Nice! Now get building so we can enjoy ourselvs along with you.

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Old 10-16-2015, 08:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Good looking start . Love the generator Shovel engine it is a mix of old and new .
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:38 AM   #15
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that is a hell of a nice start. can i ask what it cost ?
Hint: look on craigslist.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Alright gents, here's a little update, if you could even call it that. I pulled the top cover off just to inspect the gears. Besides the cracked cover, which has a very good repair done, everything else looked very clean. Kicker gear moves well and the top shifts well. Thinking of getting the adapter from Fab Kevin to run a drill to spin the gears. Just an idea. Also pulled the timing cover to check the gears. Everything looks (visually) good and it seems someone had put an Andrews J cam in there. Reading some older Shovelhead articles, they suggest the J as a mild upgrade. Any opinions on that?



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Old 10-19-2015, 07:41 AM   #17
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An "update" of sorts. Spent the weekend getting some ideas together and sourcing out parts. I picked up a narrow glide front end from a fellow JJ'er off of the classifieds. He'd already converted it to a 1" neck so all I'll do is extend the tubes. Not running these bars, I have vintage Flanders buckhorn bars that I've been holding for a while

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Old 10-19-2015, 07:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinlesposito View Post
Alright gents, here's a little update, if you could even call it that. I pulled the top cover off just to inspect the gears. Besides the cracked cover, which has a very good repair done, everything else looked very clean. Kicker gear moves well and the top shifts well. Thinking of getting the adapter from Fab Kevin to run a drill to spin the gears. Just an idea. Also pulled the timing cover to check the gears. Everything looks (visually) good and it seems someone had put an Andrews J cam in there. Reading some older Shovelhead articles, they suggest the J as a mild upgrade. Any opinions on that?



Nice weld!

The old timers I talk to say leave the motor stock and relaible. Just be happy with it and if you want power get a different bike...

Advice I'd wish I'd listen to once in awhile
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by vinlesposito View Post
An "update" of sorts. Spent the weekend getting some ideas together and sourcing out parts. I picked up a narrow glide front end from a fellow JJ'er off of the classifieds. He'd already converted it to a 1" neck so all I'll do is extend the tubes. Not running these bars, I have vintage Flanders buckhorn bars that I've been holding for a while



Gonna run it rear brake only?
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:10 AM   #20
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Gonna run it rear brake only?
That's the idea. One week in the city and I'll probably change my mind haha. I'll probably look for a juice drum or fab a mount for a rear disc
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Old 10-19-2015, 01:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I think the J is a fine cam for a Shovel. Very stock-like reliability. Nothing but an improvement, if you ask me.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:57 PM   #22
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Little filler:
Front end is on its way, and should be around in the next few days. Unfortunately I have to go back to work for two weeks (engineer on a tugboat in New York harbor), so I won't be able to get to it until I'm back.
I did pick up a new, peanut style, tank from Factory Metal Works. Overall it looks great, but the front mounting tab is a little crooked. I'll take it on the boat with me, modify that and hit it with a little primer. Not totally sure on mounting options. I don't want to drill through the top tube for the rear tab, for the front tab it would be pretty tough with all that bondo underneath the paint. Luckily I have two weeks to think about it!



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Old 10-23-2015, 10:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Can anyone running a 1.5" BDL belt drive give a little feedback?
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Last edited by vinlesposito; 10-24-2015 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 10-24-2015, 02:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I run mostly a similar setup. Not particular to brands and like the stockish clutch. What is it you need feed back for?
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Old 10-24-2015, 06:58 AM   #25
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I run mostly a similar setup. Not particular to brands and like the stockish clutch. What is it you need feed back for?
Just curious how power transfer is compared to a chain driven primary, how durable compared to chain. Are you running it open or closed?

My train of thought at the moment is to run an open belt drive, and fab up a backing plate to keep the motor and trans aligned
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Old 10-24-2015, 11:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I've not ran a chain primary in years. The 1.5 has held up with all the abuse I threw at it, idler length and the shorter ones designed not to have an idler.
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Old 10-24-2015, 10:03 PM   #27
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Never had issue except one bike. That bike should have had a plate between the trans and motor. The five finger stock style (stock is three so this was slightly better) clutch couldn't handle the motor. Trans would sometimes come out of alignment and the clutch would slip.... The belt never gave issue or came off and got the power to the clutch fine.
Also, I rode it like an idiot.....
All of mine are open, none have had mid plates....... Not saying thats the right way to do it. Only the one was nasty enough to need it in my opinion.
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:46 AM   #28
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Man, this looks great already! If my red frame was like that it would have stayed!
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:05 AM   #29
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Ran out of gloves, and greasy hands don't pair well with cameras, so minimal photos from the shop last night. But front end is on and rear wheel is mocked. Need a tire for the front wheel, but once that's on I'll have a better idea on roughly final stance. May end up getting 2 over tubes but won't be totally sure until the tire comes in. For now it sits like this
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:57 PM   #30
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I like what I'm seeing.
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:48 PM   #31
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Me too
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:54 PM   #32
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Looks good.

I also like 1.5" belt drives. I have one on each of my Shovels, one an 8mm and one an 11mm. The 11mm has blown up once when I was riding like an asshole, but it's also one of those tensioned ones, so I think it sees some heat. I also need my primary on there for the starter and the mid, so that probably also holds in heat.

I also ran a 2" on an Evo I had, that held up beautifully too. I like belts.

I don't have any type of plates tying my motors or trannies together... they don't ever seem to move.
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:04 PM   #33
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That really does look good man. I like that it'll be lifted a bit in the front
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:46 AM   #34
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Thanks guys!

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That really does look good man. I like that it'll be lifted a bit in the front
I have a feeling it will definitely have a little lift in the front, and I think thats definitely the aesthetic I'm shooting for which will draw more attention to the awesome lines of these frames.

After installing the narrow glide front end I noticed the steering stops on the lower tree do their job correctly, but will definitely chip/ding the bondo on the neck of frame. Seems simple enough to just get some round rubber stock or tubing and slip it over the stops.

I'm in the process of moving everything from my current shop to a larger (and more importantly, HEATED) garage around the corner from my apt. Once I'm all settled in I'll pull the motor, finish assembly and start really moving forward with this build.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:56 AM   #35
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On mine, I drilled and tapped for some 8-32 polished stainless button heads for the fork stops to contact.
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Old 11-10-2015, 11:47 AM   #36
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On mine, I drilled and tapped for some 8-32 polished stainless button heads for the fork stops to contact.
Done this before and it works great for keeping the paint from getting beat. Take your time drilling/tapping and you'll be happy with the result.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:09 PM   #37
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Are you going to run that rear fender? Or swap out to something a little skinnier?
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:54 AM   #38
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Are you going to run that rear fender? Or swap out to something a little skinnier?
Definitely going skinnier, probably a ribbed Wassail style painted fender. Going with a taller sissy bar too
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:03 PM   #39
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Very cool build! Will be following for sure!
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:32 PM   #40
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killer bike. I really dig that old chopper frame and old paint.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:17 AM   #41
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Just starting to get back into this project. I had a last minute opportunity to move into a shared workspace about 5 blocks from my house, so that took up a good chunk of my time just setting up our work area (building shelving, table, organizing...). Yesterday I pulled the motor out of the frame and started tearing down the top end to get a look at what parts I need to order.
Overall, the motor looks pretty great. It had been fully rebuilt by the last owner, so the valve train is brand new, cylinders have been honed, jugs painted. I really just need to give the cylinders a quick pass again, as the crank arm in the rear cylinder had scratched (but not scoured, no deep cuts) the walls a bit. I still have to check end play, I'm just waiting for the shop manual to show up so I can look at the procedure and have all the numbers in front of me. These are the pistons that came with the motor, but I'm not sure if they're the correct ones. The clearance seems very tight when comparing the diameters with a caliper, but again this is my first big twin motor, so it could be fine and I'm just less informed on the subject.
Anyway, parts list is made and I'm putting together an order. I did find a brand new set of hydraulic lifters in the box that came with the bike. Are there any benefits to hydraulics compared to solids? I don't have a pushrod set for either, so if the hydros are better I'll run those.

Lifters


Heads off


Jugs off








And the obligatory engine lift shot
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Old 12-10-2015, 10:55 AM   #42
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Micrometer and snap gauges or dial bore gauge to be accurate for the jugs. Six spots in the jugs around the inside three at the top an inch or so down and three at the bottom to tell round and taper. Same for mic ing the piston. This is how I do it.

I like the lift pic.
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:00 PM   #43
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Micrometer and snap gauges or dial bore gauge to be accurate for the jugs. Six spots in the jugs around the inside three at the top an inch or so down and three at the bottom to tell round and taper. Same for mic ing the piston. This is how I do it.
Did the snap gauge move and then mic'ed the piston. I'm getting 3.517" for the piston and 3.52" for the cylinder. Stamped on top of the piston is 020, so I'm assuming they're .020" over stock bore
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:29 PM   #44
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Take the pistons/cylinders to the local automotive machine shop and ask them to measure 'em for ya. Might cost ya $10. Peace of mind is priceless.
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:45 PM   #45
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Top of the skirt below the oil scraper ring, radiused or stepped?
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Old 12-10-2015, 06:15 PM   #46
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

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Top of the skirt below the oil scraper ring, radiused or stepped?
HMM I'll have to look at it agin, not sure about that
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:46 AM   #47
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Looking neat. Lucky no surprises so far eh!
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:18 AM   #48
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So far so good. The only thing I discovered, after doing all the proper measurements is that it is indeed an 80" top end, which has been bored over by .020" to a final bore of 3.517. I did a light hone of the cylinders, as they had already been done but then sat for years. I also received all the parts to reassemble the top end. Jaws here's a side profile of the piston rings
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:46 PM   #49
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Are you sure the rings are in the proper land? My brain is triggering an alarm. I am probably absolutely wrong but it just doesn't look right.
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:02 PM   #50
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Are you sure the rings are in the proper land? My brain is triggering an alarm. I am probably absolutely wrong but it just doesn't look right.
Rings came in a sealed bag in the parts that I received with the motor. All the clearances check out and they look identical to any pics I've been able to find in the manual. So I'm going to say yes (*Famous last words*)
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Old 12-16-2015, 05:59 PM   #51
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I like where this project is going.
As far as your hydraulic lifters go, 5 of my friends ride shovels, 3 guys have solid lifters, 2 have hydraulic (myself included) us two that run hydraulic have much less maintenance and our valve train is much less noisy. If there is any power difference between our bikes it's minor.
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Old 12-18-2015, 03:16 PM   #52
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Running into a bit of a snag today. Pistons are installed on the conrods, but having an impossible time getting the wrist pin locks in. I order compatible locks from J&P cycles, but they don't look like the locks that were previously in the pistons. It's worth noting that I don't know which manufacturer made these pistons. First pic is the previous locks, second is the ones I ordered, third is the groove where said ring would go


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Old 12-18-2015, 05:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

If the hole is set up for a C-clip the cross section will be rounded. The spiral clip grooves are square in cross section.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:15 PM   #54
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Right. Some early pistons had a button and a squared c clip thing. I dont know whomade those but a buddy has them in his pan.

Clearance is what Id want to know. Specs on the pin, spec on the distance between the grooves and groove shape. That would tell what clips to use. Might be over thinking this as the original ones you have and you could probably shop for those....
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Old 01-03-2016, 09:06 PM   #55
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Ended up ordering some spirolock retainers, which were originally installed when I got the pistons. They popped right in and I was able to assemble the rest of the engine no prob. That was until I realized I ordered the wrong pushrods for the solid lifters I had, and I didn't put the distributor in before installing the forward head. I'll chalk that up to mistakes of a first time Harley build. Here's how the engine sits as of now, just need to get the right p-rods and disassemble/reassemble the front head to install the dist.


Does anyone have experience with any of the paint color matching apps? I love my OG frame paint and would love to get close for the tank. This is what's on there now, it has a bit more metallic in it than portrayed in the pics


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Old 01-03-2016, 09:35 PM   #56
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man, this bike is sweet! im excited to see the progress
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:12 PM   #57
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Love this!

I hold my hand up to not being the biggest Shovel fan, far more knuck pan guy, BUT I love the OG paint and the shape it's taking. RE hydro lifters, from what I understand they require less maint and preserve things a little longer. But it seems you went with solids anyway! look forward to seeing more.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I picked up a slabside myself this past year. I kinda wish it was a stock 74 because it is a kick only with a 93 ci S&S kit. I am 62 now and my kicking over big inch motors I'm afraid is over. My son comes over and kicks it over with no problem but he is 220 and built like an Oak tree. I could not help myself, the Devil made me do it. Guess I need a Electric start FLH. P.S love your project.
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:23 AM   #59
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A concession for you could be a belt drive with a button. Kicking big bores has never been fun. And I'm 6'1" and pushing 300. My knees do not like it anymore. Hell kicking my big bore 2 stroke dirt bike can be painful.
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Old 01-14-2016, 11:36 AM   #60
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Your local auto paint store should have a "gun" that can match paint exactly.
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:17 PM   #61
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

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Your local auto paint store should have a "gun" that can match paint exactly.
But before you let them use THE GUN you have to polish the oxidation off the old paint by using rubbing compound or paint cleaner. Otherwise the New paint they are mixing for you will not match the old paint after you clean it up.
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:11 PM   #62
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Absolutely right Mike. I should have mentioned that. Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:50 AM   #63
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But before you let them use THE GUN you have to polish the oxidation off the old paint by using rubbing compound or paint cleaner. Otherwise the New paint they are mixing for you will not match the old paint after you clean it up.
Found a "trick" on another board that called for diluting CLR bathroom cleaner and a scotch-brite pad. I rubbed down the whole frame and its looking much better. Red is noticeably brighter, gold striping stands out more, and some of the exposed metal spots turned from rust to "fresh" metal.

Also finished assembly of the motor, put it back in the frame and started mocking up the Paughco exhaust I bought a few months back. The tank I'm using has a very high tunnel and meets the heads before the frame. The plan is to move the front tab down, weld in a filler piece, then smooth all the edges and use some body filler to get rid of the seams.



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Old 01-20-2016, 11:17 AM   #64
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That frame and mine could be twins... Love the moulded look.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:11 AM   #65
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Another trick to try on the rust removal is a product called Offasa ( I spelled it wrong but that's what it sounds like ) . Its a metal prep you can get it at paint stores . A friend uses it on cars that have surface rust . It will lift the rust stains out of the paint and neutralize the rust ,but you must wax it or it will rust in time . Just soak a sponge with it and work your way across the frame . Wash off with water and repeat .
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:18 AM   #66
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Is there a way to fit that tank so you can see that beautiful molding work on the frame underneath it?
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:44 AM   #67
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

If you dig through my last build thread, you can see that I dealt with many of the same challenges you did. If you're farting around with lacquer paint, a case of beer, soft cloths, soap, water, and wax can get you where you want to go. Just go slow and don't rush. I spent way more time than I did money, and I am happy with how things turned out. Nice and shiny, but not brand-new looking.

For metal and chrome stuff, I found copper wool did a great job cleaning things up. White vinegar diluted way down helped, and I used soap and water for a lot of cleanup too.

Lugie made a good point when I started... there's a very fine line between de-crusting and flat-out overrestoring. You kind of have to go slow and use judgement so you don't wind up with parts that look all mis-matchy.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:22 AM   #68
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If you dig through my last build thread, you can see that I dealt with many of the same challenges you did. If you're farting around with lacquer paint, a case of beer, soft cloths, soap, water, and wax can get you where you want to go. Just go slow and don't rush. I spent way more time than I did money, and I am happy with how things turned out. Nice and shiny, but not brand-new looking.

For metal and chrome stuff, I found copper wool did a great job cleaning things up. White vinegar diluted way down helped, and I used soap and water for a lot of cleanup too.

Lugie made a good point when I started... there's a very fine line between de-crusting and flat-out overrestoring. You kind of have to go slow and use judgement so you don't wind up with parts that look all mis-matchy.
Thanks for the heads up Mule, somehow missed your thread and just went through it. Bike came out beautiful, congrats. Ive been slowly going over most of the spots on my frame. I was lucky enough that it was clean of any oil or grime when I got it, so mostly just surface rust and garage dust.

I think its really important (maybe I'm on a soapbox here) that this frame, or any like it, doesn't get fucked up. Ive had people suggest that I strip the paint or get it blasted and repainted in a similar style. To me, half the soul and all of the original owners vision would be gone if i did that. Ill patch up little spots and coat it with some wax to preserve the paint for as long as possible.

thanks for all the feedback so far all!
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:49 PM   #69
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I for one am very glad you have saved the old paint . It will never be that way again. There is too much fake patina out there now.
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:13 PM   #70
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Been a while since I last posted. Slow going as I gather parts but I was able to get th bike on the ground today. Modified the gas tank tunnel to raise the tank height, mounted the oil tank, mocking up exhaust and finished the rocker feed lines. Still need plenty of parts and time.



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Old 03-21-2016, 10:37 PM   #71
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

damn man! that chop is tough as nails.
please keep it short & tight(not crazy tall bars/apes)
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:23 PM   #72
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Looks lovely man! keep it up!
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:14 PM   #73
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Nice Shovel Man, I like the looks of this one!

Nick.
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Old 03-22-2016, 09:00 PM   #74
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

"For metal and chrome stuff, I found copper wool did a great job cleaning things up."

Where does one find this "copper wool" of which you speak?
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:18 AM   #75
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Hey all! Haven't updated this thread in a while because progress has been slow and I didn't want to bore anyone with small details and questions. So, since the last post Ive mocked up my primary belt drive system with a BDL belt, and a heavy duty dry clutch. Also laced the original star hub to a 19" rear rim, up from a 16". I think it gives the bike a good raise in the back, and evens out the lower frame rail to the ground. Lastly, I swapped the rear cylinder exhaust pipe to an upsweep to run some cocktail shakers.
With all that being said, I am having some issued with the rear drum brake. The brake stay is barely seated in the frame slot (see picture below) and Im concerned that it will slip out under hard breaking. Also, the brake makes a very harsh scraping noise when the wheel is spinning. Not sure if its from a bad spacer, or if the hub/backing plate is warped, but its definitely a problem.
How it looks now


brake stay gap


scraping noise
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:29 PM   #76
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Hard to tell from the pics, but you might have a mismatch of parts from the three different year groups for that back brake.

Noise most likely from one of two places:

1) Brake plate rubbing on lip of drum. Different year groups have different mating arrangements. '63-'72 has rounded lip on plate that covers lip of drum. Yours is earlier. Look up rear brake parts by year group and you can see differences.

2) Brake shoes dragging on inside of brake drum (NOT the braking area, the back of the drum). This would also be due to incorrect parts or mismatch.

You could likely modify what you've got and get it sorted, but you might also lay out all the parts for a pic and find out what year groups you're working with. Rear drum brake parts are generally inexpensive and could be worth your while to just run with a matching setup.

Jason

p.s. - Where in BK are you? I used to have an underground workshop at Morgan Ave & Johnson Ave. '98 to '06. Got tired of paying rent and moved to Philly to buy an industrial building.
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:57 PM   #77
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Looks manual, not hydro, so it may just be the inner spacer between the frame and the backing plate. It needs to come closer to the frame, to allow the locking stay to fit in the slot. Not to mention the backing plate looks rounded, and all of the manual's I have seen, are more flat. But at my age, eyesight is not as good as in my youth.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:46 PM   #78
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I'll take a pic of the parts disassembled to make it a little easier to identify, but mismatched parts make sense. I thought about a bigger spacer, bc yeah it is a manual brake, but the backing plate is as close to the frame as possivle, so I don't think a longer spacer would accomplish anything. The frame is a '53, so I'm assuming I would need brake parts for that year frame to match correctly? Can I change the backing plate without having to get anew drum?
Jason I'm in Greenpoint, right across the street from McCarren park. I wish we had a warehouse to buy, but those days of Brooklyn are LONG gone. Idk if you've been back to Morgan & Johnson lately, but I reckon you'd be shocked at the difference since '06!
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:21 PM   #79
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It was pretty hipstered up by time I left. When I first moved in there was a murder in the apartment above my shop by a local drug lord and we were questioned by detectives. By time I left there were young drunk ladies on fixed gear bicycles riding home at 2am listening to ipods. Shit changes fast.

I take it it doesn't look like this any longer?



My girlfriend (now wife) lived a block away from McGolrick (sp?) park in Greenpoint. Used to buy quarts of Polish beer and take our german shepherd for walks there daily.

Man, I got old fast.

Show pics of the parts and we'll help however we can.

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Old 02-24-2017, 11:27 AM   #80
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Killer Pan Jason. It's basically just more of everything: skinny white kids, bars, restaurants, organic grocery stores. But in Bushwick at least a lot the the long time residents are still there, so that's cool.

Anyway, here's what I'm working with. Need to clean everything up and taper down the brake pads, but we're in mock up right now.





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Old 02-24-2017, 01:13 PM   #81
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I compared what you have, to one I have in the shop, and mine is OG, and pulled as one piece off a customers bike for a new aftermarket one. It appears, without having it in my hand, to be the same stuff. And equally nasty. But, in the last photo with the wheel on the bike, it looks like the locking tab that fits in the slot on the frame, to keep it from rotating, is not aligned with the slot in the frame. And again, maybe it is the photo, but the backing plate looks to be sitting at a small angle to the drum. Which would cause the brake shoes to drag on the back side of the drum, which it appears to be doing, in the photo with the drum off. Some of those tabs(a bent piece of approx. 1/8 inch steel, in a small loop) can be tight to fit in the slot, which is a good thing. The one on my 51, I had to tap in with a mallet, which is hell on new paint, but tight is better than loose.
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Old 02-24-2017, 01:50 PM   #82
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The plate alignment is definitely skewed as Shovit mentioned.

Look at the two red lines in the pic. One follows the brake plate, the other the lip of the drum. Look how there's no gap at top purple line and a larger gap at bottom purple line.

Jason

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Old 02-24-2017, 01:59 PM   #83
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Could that be from not having the dust ring on the drum? Seems like that might keep it a little aligned. I haven't measured the spacer hole in the plate against the spacer OD to see if there's any wear.

Shovit you're right, the tab doesn't totally go into the frame stay, but that's not bc of a tight fit but bc there's no room for it to go further left, unless of course the plate is misaligned
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Old 02-24-2017, 06:30 PM   #84
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The dust ring does NOT hold anything in alignment, and if it does, it is either bent, warped or otherwise damaged. All it does, is keep BIG dust out of the drum by closing the gap.

Take a photo of the rear brake side frame, so we can see the anchor slot in front of the axle adjuster. And the other thing that we can't see, is how the rear axle sleeve fits into the bearing in the wheel. Plus, a shot of the brake side of the star hub. Maybe even a length of the sleeve, because there are several, in length and diameter. Yours looks right, but we are chasing details here, and details count.

The photo with the new alignment "red lines", photo, still bugs me, as to why the anchor lug it so out of line with the rest of the backing plate. I have two in the shop, one on the shelve, and one on my 51, they are both identical, except for condition. The one on the 51, fits perfectly, and the lug fits in the anchor slot square. Makes me wonder if the anchor has been altered. In the Service manual, they only show one setup, one drum, backing plate, shoes etc etc. So, if you have mismatched parts, the details really do count.
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Old 02-25-2017, 12:11 PM   #85
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Post #80 it looks like a mid-star hub you're trying to put on a mechanical brake set up. Could that be the problem?
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Old 02-25-2017, 01:20 PM   #86
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Look at post #75, and it appears that the "Star" is there. Although it is hard to see, but I think I can see the second point of the star through the axle slot, but I asked him to take some photos of some other parts, so, I am sure he will answer the question.

He needs to mount the backing plate, without the drum and wheel, to see if the lug fits in the slot, and then install the wheel/drum after the backing plate is snugged down.

Also, I am sure he knows, but the "narrow glide" front end, is actually a early shovelhead FX 33.4 front end, like the sportsters ran for years, except with the one inch stem, instead of the 7/8ths one the XL's ran. Just in case you decide to rebuild it, or buy new tubes.
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Old 02-25-2017, 05:55 PM   #87
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

this will be a fun project and you have a great starting platform right there, congrats

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The old timers I talk to say leave the motor stock and reliable. Just be happy with it and if you want power get a different bike...

Advice I'd wish I'd listen to once in awhile
I hear this also, but a good, well built stroker will out perform and outlast a stock motor IMHO
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:39 PM   #88
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

It is in fact a star hub and not a midstar. Here's a photo I took of the left side with the axle adjuster and brake slot. I haven't had a chance to take it apart for photo to take measurements or photos, so here's this for now.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:56 PM   #89
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

With just the backing plate on, no wheel no internals, you can see that the brake tab still doesn't sit all the way in the frame slot. At this point I'm thinking the tab had to have been modified at some point. Thoughts??





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Old 03-25-2017, 07:13 PM   #90
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I went and looked at mine, which is a cut frame, but the axle plates are stock, and my tab, fits farther in, and almost comes even with the outer edge of the slot. I compared your plate, to mine, and if it has been altered, it is not by much. Not as much as you brake plate sits away from the frame. I took photos, but I am a pretty good mechanic, but I suck at photos. I can do them, but it is a two hour job(ok, I lied, but I am a dumb guy, with a smart phone). But it has to be something, because yours is the first one I have seen, with that particular problem. And, when it does crop up, it is usually a spacer problem, like with the hydro units.

Do you have a way to take some measurements of the backing plate, across the axle hole, compared to the tabletop on each side?? and from three quadrants???

If it were the frame, it would stick out, like a sore thumb, to be that wacked out.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:57 PM   #91
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Do you have a spacer between the frame and backing plate?
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:22 AM   #92
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

No spacer on mine, and his should not have one either. I have the photos, and can send all he wants, through email, if he wants them.

I saw nothing stand out, that made me think that I had found the problem. I have a aftermarket brake setup, and a OEM one, and both fit exactly the same. Which is odd, because the aftermarket stuff these days, usually have to be massaged into working correctly.

I am thinking that the backing plate may be bent, or tweeked somehow. Which is why I wanted to know if he could measure the center against the edges.

A small amount of "bend" or "warpage", when run out to a distance, gains more than most people imagine. Or, if it is bent out of true, by 1/16, by the time you run a straight edge across it, and measure at the outer edge, it can be 2 or 3 16ths. Even worse, but I would think that it would be seen by the naked eye. ((I said naked, cool))

I will check to see if you have email, available. If so, I will send you my photos. If not, look up mine, and send me yours.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:46 AM   #93
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Shovit, I'll send you an pm with my email

I can definitely take some measurements on a flat plate to see if the plate is bent or warped. But I really do think the tab has been modified by someone in the past. Looking at pictures of newer plates, the tab is more like a capitol C, whereas mine is more bent closed. I'll probably try to bend it back out with a little heat
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:45 AM   #94
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Right, not supposed to be a spacer. But in last picture backing plate seems too far from frame.
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:10 PM   #95
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Yeah, mine fits like it should, and I have a OEM and a aftermarket one, so I took photos of each, attached, from several directions, and some with a measuring device, to show him how mine fits. Did both. The are both pretty close to being exactly the same dimentions, and fitment. So, now I am waiting on him to look and measure his.

He seems to think it is the tab, but it is not the tab, but the angle it is sitting at, which affect how the tab aligns with the slot.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:25 PM   #96
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Shovithead, was gracious enough to help me out with a ton of pics and measurements that I used to verify if my backing plate was aligned correctly or crooked. The plate was flat/correct, the tab was in fact bent/modified at some point, so that solves that. Was able to get the fender and sissy bar all fabbed up with some help from a more skilled welder than I. Will post some more detailed pics, but heres how it sits as of right now



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Old 04-16-2017, 04:17 PM   #97
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Keep the questions coming, and the photos too. That, is going to be a sweet piece of metal when you are done. Even if you don't polish it up to much. But, I have always liked the stockish frame bikes anyway.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:37 AM   #98
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Yup. Cool machine. Dig a slabside shovel.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:46 PM   #99
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

really like that rig so far although I would have stayed with the 16" rearset instead of the skinny rubber thingie you mounted right now

keep the updates comin`
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:00 PM   #100
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Glad you got it sorted.

Enjoy the ride.

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Old 04-19-2017, 06:21 PM   #101
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Does anyone have a simple wiring diagram for running with a mangeto and no battery? Seems like I just need one wire from the generator to capacitor to the ignition switch, and a few more for headlight/tail light an brake switch.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:59 PM   #102
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Correct, and why a key switch? Just a toggle will do, and it is next to useless, since you will have no battery.

See Rhysmorton, he runs the same setup. He is currently adding a rear tail light and brake light on his. But, yes, genny to cap, then wire what you need. I am sure he will chime in, when he sees this. Not that he can add anything. But, he can tell you his experience.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:14 PM   #103
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Just pretend the battery in the diagram is a capacitor. They are the same really, batteries just hold a charge a bit longer.

Also erase the ignition coil and point (in brown) coming off the IGN position. You don't want to send voltage to your magneto.

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Old 04-20-2017, 07:15 AM   #104
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Awesome, thanks Jason
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:01 PM   #105
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I've literally got a single wire through my whole bike for back and front light. If you can crack it, will work like a dream!
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:19 AM   #106
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:26 AM   #107
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Quote:
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I have half the wires that does! depends how basic you want it! Cycle elec capacitor, one wire from there to headlight to rear light that's it!
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:12 PM   #108
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Brake light is handy
Maybe no traffic up your country


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Old 04-21-2017, 02:13 PM   #109
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Quote:
I have half the wires that does!
you also have a generator, that diagram is for alternator bikes.
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:52 PM   #110
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Brake light is handy
Maybe no traffic up your country


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Same wire sir.
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:52 PM   #111
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you also have a generator, that diagram is for alternator bikes.
Yeah, just stating it's doable!
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:05 PM   #112
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Picked up this guy a few days ago, pretty psyched on it. Morris Mag 74E. Went to install yesterday and was having trouble getting the hex alignment correct. Instructions say to set it to the points "just about to open" and inspect if the mag studs align with a flat or a point. I was able to figure that out but had to take the base out a few times, shift the driver and install again to try to get it right. After about 6 attempts I called it quits, need to give it another crack again today.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:16 PM   #113
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Have you watched this?


It was really useful for me to have a complete visual walkthrough.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:34 PM   #114
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I literally just watched! Thanks Eric. Im basically going through those steps again. Whats happening is I'm installing with the points opening so it doesn't matter if i turns the mag, the contact is still broken. I stepped away for the night, gonna jump on it with a clear head
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:31 PM   #115
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

remove the drive from the motor and turn the shaft a tooth & re=fit until it lines up,... real simple,...... the drive gear has (if I remember right) 10 gear flutes, and the drive hex has 6 faces so a finer movement can be achieved using a combination of the two.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:45 AM   #116
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And shesis. Basically did what Magnum45Pete said above. Took a few tries and a little trimming of some cyclinger find but she's in and timed. For anyone looking into a Morris, these guys were a joy to deal with and I 100% suggest picking up the timing tool.

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Old 05-08-2017, 08:41 AM   #117
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Glad you got it done & that I was able to help,
Dave at Morris Magneto's is a great fella and very helpful,...I used to live in the next town over (Bernardsville) and often used to go to his workshop to check out some real nice bikes he was working on,... always had time for a Coffee & a chat...
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:48 AM   #118
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Looking good! Never ran a mag and watching carefully......bike is coming along nicely...
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:15 PM   #119
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Looking at the last pic... looks like you're missing the lil spacer between the case and the mag base. I'm pretty sure that's necessary to get it timed right (and maybe was causing the extra problems?).
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Old 05-08-2017, 12:52 PM   #120
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It's in there, just hard to see because the metals all look the same.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:41 PM   #121
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

The mag sits nice in there. Dressing the fins really makes the difference.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:20 PM   #122
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

A little more progress last night. Mounted the mikuni VM38 carb and put this silly NOS cable wrap on the throttle cable



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Old 05-10-2017, 01:22 AM   #123
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Thats pretty.
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Old 05-11-2017, 05:09 PM   #124
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

I remember those "cable covers" had them on my bike back then also ...

doesn`t look that shabby anyway
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:23 PM   #125
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Well, after months and months of messing around with this bike I gave a shot at tying to start her up. I had great hot spark from the Morris mag, sounds like I had good compression and fuel was getting to the Mikuni, but no luck. I think I need to give the carb a little tuning with the air mixture screw, but not even a little sputter was disheartening �� If anyone has any experience tuning a Mikuni on a shovelhead, any tips would be appreciated.
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Old 05-26-2017, 06:37 AM   #126
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Jetting? And are you sure on the timing? Plugs wet?
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:32 AM   #127
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For sure on the timing, I followed the step by step instructions from Morris
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:47 PM   #128
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

How do you know you are getting good spark when the plugs are in the bike and fighting the compression?

Kicking a mag fired bike requires a very fast kick. Speed is everything. I learned this by putting an inline tester between the spark plug and spark plug wire. Lights up when plug actually sparks. Kicked bike in the dark to see what it took to get good spark in real life conditions

The testers are pretty cheap and is a quick and easy way to determine if your problem is carb or ignition. If it is a mag issue there are a few tricks I can tell you to make things easier. If its the mikuni I know nothing.
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Old 05-27-2017, 05:48 AM   #129
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Inline tester is a good call Devo, never thought of that. I checked spark by pulling one plug at a time, grounding it against the case and giving the bike a good kick. Each plug had a nice blue spark, but like you said that could be different when in the cylinder fighting compression
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Old 05-27-2017, 09:13 AM   #130
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Plug gaps at .025-.028 ?
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:35 PM   #131
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

According to Morris plug gap for magneto should be 0.020-0.025. Smaller the gap the easier it is to kick over. I run mine at 0.018, but mine is running 11 to 1 compression ratio.
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Old 05-27-2017, 01:05 PM   #132
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

oops memory isn't what it used to be. Hunt say's .018-.025 and solid core wires and no resistor plugs.
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:09 PM   #133
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oops memory isn't what it used to be. Hunt say's .018-.025 and solid core wires and no resistor plugs.
I had to look those numbers up myself... to many things to remember obout these bikes for any one person to remember haha
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Old 05-27-2017, 04:45 PM   #134
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I had to look those numbers up myself... to many things to remember obout these bikes for any one person to remember haha
Haha so true! Thanks guys, I'll scope the plug gap. I got my wired direct from Morris when I picked up the mag, using their suggested Champion plugs as well
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:54 PM   #135
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So turned out the mag was 180 degrees off, I was timing off of the wrong line. Could have sworn I did it correctly but things happen.

Of course now I still can't get it to quite fire. Changed the jetting on the mikuni based on the suggestions given to my by Sudco, 280 main jet, 22.5 pilot jet, clip in the middle needle slot. My current problem is this:
Motor almost fires, but will either spit back out of the carb (with some black smoke) or backfire and try to spin the motor backwards. Magneto is just one the verge of retarded and advanced based on the Morris buzz box. Not sure why I tried to be different and run a VM Mikuni, but I'm starting to get very frustrated
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:53 PM   #136
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

If your kicker is coming back on you your timing is too far advanced.Those Mikunis are pretty solid,if your in the ballpark with your jetting it should start.Make sure you have your idle up enough so it will carry the start without having to give it throttle.I know you can't set it if you don't know what it is,just give it a little nudge here and there...
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Old 06-09-2017, 07:27 AM   #137
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If your kicker is coming back on you your timing is too far advanced.Those Mikunis are pretty solid,if your in the ballpark with your jetting it should start.Make sure you have your idle up enough so it will carry the start without having to give it throttle.I know you can't set it if you don't know what it is,just give it a little nudge here and there...
Got it, I'll adjust the retard settings and see if that helps

I haven't tried messing with starting the bike since the other night, but I did pick up my tins from paint and put them on the bike. They did an amazing job matching the original candy red lacquer, I couldn't be happier. More detailed shots of the bike to follow








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Old 06-09-2017, 07:55 AM   #138
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Looks spot on
Plus one on the kicking back


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Old 06-09-2017, 10:28 AM   #139
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

If you're 180deg off, then you may also be timing it on the fat lobe of the points cam. Be sure when static timing it that you're on front cylinder compression and timing it off the advance mark...mag is set so that the skinny lobe of the points cam is just about to open the points.

You have an adjustable base mag, so be sure to set the limiters on the mag drive shaft so that you can rotate the mag head clockwise to retard it for easier starting. Once its fired up, rotate the mag head forward for full advance.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:55 AM   #140
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That bike looks just right. I'm grinnin and slobberin a little.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:24 AM   #141
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FUCKING WoW, beautiful bike Man!
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:50 AM   #142
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Bike looks amazing man!
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:04 AM   #143
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Thanks guys! I'm really happy with the way the paint and finishes turned out. Some pics from the Night Of Troglodytes show at the race of gentlemen over the weekend. Picked up a S&S Super E to try out on here as they are tried and tested.





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Old 06-12-2017, 11:09 AM   #144
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Yeah that paint looks incredible man. Super E is a good carb and does what it says on the tin. I don't like them myself but the 1000's of others use them and swear by them.

That paint...!
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:59 AM   #145
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Yeah, that's spot on good looking.
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:58 PM   #146
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Perfect Man, just bloody perfect! I'm pinching some of your pictures to share, your bikes too good not to!
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:30 AM   #147
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Hey I just read through this thread, it's a great project and I love the colour!

Has the Super E sorted the starting issue?
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:19 PM   #148
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Hey I just read through this thread, it's a great project and I love the colour!

Has the Super E sorted the starting issue?
Thanks Tombo, appreciate it.

I haven't had a chance to try to fire it up. Im a little concerned that the jets I have on it right now may be too big (came with a 72 main and 0295 idle), but the plan is to turn the mixture lean and the accell pump down to try to get it running.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:28 AM   #149
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Default Re: Slabside Shovelhead

Thats a good start.

Accel off. 1-1 1/2 out on the mix. Make sure throttle plates are fulle closed. Then come up to it with the idle screw. Once it makes contact, 1/2 turn or so.

If you rebuild it. You better have remembered the blue o-ring
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:29 AM   #150
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Those jets sound find for it man.

As jaws said, blue O ring! double check there's no damage with mixture screw being bottomed and over tightened!
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:49 AM   #151
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what a beautiful bike...
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:23 PM   #152
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Thats a good start.

Accel off. 1-1 1/2 out on the mix. Make sure throttle plates are fulle closed. Then come up to it with the idle screw. Once it makes contact, 1/2 turn or so.

If you rebuild it. You better have remembered the blue o-ring
Hmmmm I don't recall seeing a blue o-ring. It going on the main jet right? I'm guessing it's pretty critical and I should order
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:14 PM   #153
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This one
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:48 PM   #154
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This one
Don't think I saw that little guy! Will replace when I swap jets. Thanks fellas
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Old 06-22-2017, 05:00 PM   #155
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You need it.....Check the shop floor under the bench by the table leg.
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