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Old 03-31-2016, 05:37 PM   #101
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

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Originally Posted by Dan Boy View Post
I have never noticed the peak running dead centre before. Do you do anything there is its good to go?
He already answered your question, and the alien tank was mentioned earlier...but the ridge / peak in some production versions (maybe only the GME version) of the alien tank was a preservation and nod to this being a feature of guys turning these into one-piece tanks. It's that detail that I think makes them much cooler than the smooth ones.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:08 AM   #102
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More work done.

I realize I am jumping around a lot with bits and bobs on the bike without actually finishing anything fully yet. Part of that is ADD, but the more adult-like reason is that I do want to get a "proof of concept" for each of the parts I have imagined in my mind before I invest lots of time finishing out any one in particular. Make sure all the little pieces and details actually fit together and function right as they're built. So I'm making all the parts in parallel, a little at a time, all at once.

So, today little bite out of the problem was starting on my mids setup. Again, there is a reasonably complex (to me at least, not to many I'm sure) setup I am imagining for the foot controls involving foot pegs and front pulley cover al la Daikoue (the awesome Japanese builder).

First off, pulley cover. Take one compensating sprocket outter primary tin:
IMG_3308 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

A little laser surgery:
IMG_3310 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3311 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3312 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3313 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

And some aw-sheet metal patching:
IMG_3334 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3335 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Now. This is my very first foray into sheet metal work... LOTS of welding and grinding and welding and shaping and fucking about. You can see lots of voids and junk in the "final" product that'll be bondo'd. If nothing else it taught me lots.

Here's the general idea for its placement and use:
IMG_3340 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3342 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:11 AM   #103
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

I like that alot!!!
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:25 AM   #104
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The next part was/is the piece to tie this into the frame and give a good support mount for the footpeg.

Some jib-jabs from Lowbrow and 1" stock:
IMG_3490 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3492 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

A little "damn I wish I had a milling machine"
IMG_3493 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3496 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Then to something I've been hemming and hawing over... brazing. Basically, from my "research" it's generally held that brazing is a cancer on modern "choppers". But, on the negative side, 1) I don't have a TIG, 2) I'll likely not get one soon as the cash I'd spend on that I'd rather put elsewhere (like a mill?) 3) I'm fine paying a pro to do the more complex metal gluing like aluminum work and TIGing up the gas tank halves.

On the pro side, 1) I know how to braze and think I'm pretty decent enough at it and can make pretty fillets, I learned from bicycle frame builders, 2) I have a good setup for it, not a MAP torch and flux-cored turd maker 3) I enjoy it (which makes me want to get a TIG setup).

Anyhow, fuck it I'm going to braze these bits and probably others.

Slather it in brazers snot after a good cleaning:
IMG_3497 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

The drill bit is there to show me the bung orientation as I'm working, keeping it aligned.

Some preheat and flux sizzle:
IMG_3498 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Aaaaand BRAZING IT ALL ITS GLORY:
IMG_3502 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

No touchy yet.

Now touchy:
IMG_3503 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

And touchy lots. I did a lot of cleanup mostly to see what works best and practice shaping things. After wire wheeling off the leftover flux post bath:
IMG_3504 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3505 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Hand file work:
IMG_3507 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3509 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

It's not to final shape yet but I'm just playing around, slowly approaching the method I want to use for the rest of the bits.

General fitment. Still needs to be bent vertical around the pulley.
IMG_3520 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

And how it'll work with the pulley cover. Basically tucking in behind it and running high enough for the foot peg to attach to in the middle of the cover.

IMG_3523 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

I realize I devoted a LONG post to just this little part. Can't really tell (through my excitement and passionate moto fab lust) if that's a good thing or bad thing.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:42 AM   #105
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

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I like that alot!!!
Thanks!

Anyone want the back half of a repop primary cover?
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:52 AM   #106
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

One more angle for good measure:
IMG_3518 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:46 PM   #107
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

Looking good, but I'm concerned about the strength of that peg mount in its current form. I see a simple rework being to cut a notch in the bung, allowing your flatstock to index into the material prior to brazing. It will look the same and be a considerably stronger joint. Also, weld it...
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:52 PM   #108
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

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Looking good, but I'm concerned about the strength of that peg mount in its current form. I see a simple rework being to cut a notch in the bung, allowing your flatstock to index into the material prior to brazing. It will look the same and be a considerably stronger joint.
Good call, that would also eliminate all the shaping required to get the top radii to match and fit up well. The 3/4" hole saw is too inaccurate and sloppy for the 3/4" OD bung... Ended up boring with a 5/8" and hand fitting from there.

This left-side mount will be anchored in two places, but on the right side it (probably) will be floating off the single frame tab and I'll definitely be using that fitup method. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Also, weld it...
Got a spare TIG to loan me?
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:59 PM   #109
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

Looks good to me. The braze goes where the flux went and you have plenty of surface there to connect the two parts. I just don't understand what it is you are building. Combined footpeg and belt shield?
Let's see where this is going.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:15 PM   #110
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Looks good to me. The braze goes where the flux went and you have plenty of surface there to connect the two parts. I just don't understand what it is you are building. Combined footpeg and belt shield?
Let's see where this is going.
Thanks for the vote. The angle of the floor tab will give a little bit of shear force ( cosine(A) ) but most will be directly atop the bung. That's my armchair engineering at least...

The total "assembly" is basically what you're getting at... I wanted the pegs right at the pulley more or less. I didn't want to worry about the belt eating things, or rubbing on my boot for the fwd clutch pedal (Lee style), and liked the idea of having the little flat to rest my foot perched up high too. And I didn't want full tins covering the belt.

I was inspired by Daikoube's killer Knuckle:




Some drawings playing with the overall design (ignore the "bridge" with the clutch pedal between the kickstand cluster and the cover):

Untitled by Eric Bott, on Flickr

That "bridge" was trying to get another point of contact for the cover so it'll not twist and stay firmly affixed to the frame relative to the case. Another option would be to fasten it though to one of the the inner cover mounting holes on the case around the crank pin. It would be pretty slick and "invisible", but I don't like that option in that I see the bike taking a fall to the left and having the force punch through the case rather than taking it all to the frame...
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:36 PM   #111
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

I like your thinking Eric. Especially the part about a crash aftermath. Most people never think very far. My two favorites are a. the two spiked nuts on top of a springer that will puncture your skull in a crash and b. the dual rear petcocks at the end of a sportster tank. Even in a light crash you will slide forward on your seat into the back of the tank. Hello nut pain but not nearly as bad as one of the petcocks severing your femoral artery on your inside thigh......
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Old 04-20-2016, 04:53 PM   #112
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

What did you weld the belt guard with? And if you cut the groove in the bung like suggested above you could probably gas weld them with no filler. That is if you got a tight enough fit. Even if you need filler why not use steel instead of brass? In a pinch I use .045 solid mig wire with good results
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:15 PM   #113
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

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What did you weld the belt guard with? And if you cut the groove in the bung like suggested above you could probably gas weld them with no filler. That is if you got a tight enough fit. Even if you need filler why not use steel instead of brass? In a pinch I use .045 solid mig wire with good results
The belt guard was welded with a wee lil 100v MIG I've got as well. Don't think it can push enough amperage to weld anything "structural", I think it may be ultimately limited by the power available in my detached garage shop. I've never gotten much penetration with it, but I'm no master by far.

Thicker stuff I trust someone else's TIG or my torch. I should try my hand at gas welding it seems...
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Old 04-26-2016, 01:50 PM   #114
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So. I took a TIG welding class yesterday (including AC aluminum welding)...

Shit. I am hooked.
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Old 04-26-2016, 01:54 PM   #115
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

Looking forward to seeing some laid beads
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Old 04-26-2016, 10:55 PM   #116
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

Looking good,
Brazing is surprisingly strong so don't sweat that too much.
As far as TIG goes you'll get hooked for sure. It's not an "art". It's a skill. And like any other skill practice makes perfect. A little time, patience and a few tips along the way and you will be pleased with what you can do!
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:32 AM   #117
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

Looks good
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Old 07-20-2016, 03:17 PM   #118
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Ok, I'm back. And while I've been doing lots of little stuff I have an initial roadblock to address (need help with).

The setup:
-Panhead round swingarm (has zerk fitting, so '59+ I think if that matters)
-Mid star 16" wheel
-66-72 juice drum

AFAIK all these parts are stock, but they are all piecemealed together from different sources.

So I finally get the whole rear end put together today and notice that the tire is ~3/8" too far to the left. Very noticeable to the naked eye. I need to get a more precise measurement on the chainline, but that does look pretty good initially. I've looked at many a posts, especially the one from MOTher with this great pic (post #4 http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/s....php?t=89620):



I've got all the bits in all the right places according to this. I paid special attention to the "thick spacer on the inside of the axle plate, thinner spacer outside".

Here's the wheel on there lookin' good:

IMG_3693 by Eric Bott, on Flickr


Aaaaand the view from above:

IMG_3695 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

So I'd like to see what people think are my likely problems and options. My main though is just needing to re-dish the rim to the left, but before I go all commando with the spoke wrench I wanted to get a general temperature from the other people here.

Lemme know if this all makes sense...
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:03 PM   #119
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Default Re: Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle

Manual says 1 1/32" for 1969 and back, and 1" for 1969 to 1972 as measured with a straight edge on the drum side of the hub to the side of the drop center on the rim.
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:46 PM   #120
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How does it feel spinning the wheel? Just the bearings moving or is there some drag? Don't forget to slack the shoes to get the load right on the bearings.
You are gonna want a larger area against the axle plate on the right side. I've had just the spacer like you have not give enough surface area against the axle plate on the swingarm or frame. It's actually moved some and worn a spot in the area and loosened the tension on the bearings, allowing the right side to move out of adjustment under accell and decell.
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