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Old 01-20-2016, 10:17 AM   #61
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

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my eye says the pipes need to follow the top of the primary cover. I think that is what makes the IL pipes work. I made a set very similar to what you are doing, and that little bit of upsweep really makes a big visual difference. but its just my opinion, and your pipes...
You're totally right... with the pipes high I liked the contrast it almost made with the slope of the primary. But down low the conflicting lines just make the pipes look saggy.

I've got quite a bit more fiddling and fitting to do, but it'll be worth it in the end getting it right.
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:03 AM   #62
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

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and you're totally right, that pipe position isn't going to fly. Thanks for the catch man.

Started to reposition it lower and therefore tighter into the frame, along the taper of the jugs.
Ha - no worries. I wanted to mention before you put 40 hours in

I'm not sure if it would create heat issues, but you could also contour the exhaust to clear the jugs and pull the pipe assembly closer to the motor. I contoured a pipe (cut out a segment, reverse the segment into the pipe and weld) to clear the bottom of the ignition cover on my shovelhead.

I can't find a great pic right now, but you can kind of see the edges on these:



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Old 01-20-2016, 11:13 AM   #63
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

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Ha - no worries. I wanted to mention before you put 40 hours in

I'm not sure if it would create heat issues, but you could also contour the exhaust to clear the jugs and pull the pipe assembly closer to the motor. I contoured a pipe (cut out a segment, reverse the segment into the pipe and weld) to clear the bottom of the ignition cover on my shovelhead.
For sure... this really *is* my first rodeo so trying to keep all the variables in mind when building is quite a lot. I did almost spend 40 hours building myself into a corner.

With the pipe contouring, what did you use for cutting the segments? I imagine you'd want as fine a kerf as possible for fitment when you flip the section back over.
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Old 01-20-2016, 04:30 PM   #64
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

Hmmm - I might have used a cutoff on the air tool. Those have a smaller wheel and finer kerf, but I'm pretty sure that I probably (ahem) used the tiny Dremel cutoff wheels to keep the smallest kerf.

Here's a pic:

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Old 01-21-2016, 01:51 PM   #65
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

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Hmmm - I might have used a cutoff on the air tool. Those have a smaller wheel and finer kerf, but I'm pretty sure that I probably (ahem) used the tiny Dremel cutoff wheels to keep the smallest kerf.

Here's a pic:

Good stuff, thanks for that.

I've spent the last few evenings cutting, filing, fiddling, cursing, and messing with that front pipe. It seems I got lucky and landed the first fitment pretty well and this lower fit is fighting me all the way.

Again, worth it. Gotta do it. Gonna figure it out. But goddamn...

Getting them kicked up more to flow with the primary chain-soon-to-be-belt slope. Not sold on keeping the primary in the tins yet, but the end flow should be similar enough either way (I hope).
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:39 AM   #66
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

Obigitory "vroom vroom" shot, tinkering with foot positioning. Now thinking about ditching the floorboards for pegs off the rear floorboard tabs.

Then hacking up the Pangea Speed clutch pedal and integrating that with the left mount...

IMG_3098 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:46 AM   #67
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

Also got a round swingarm from Cody Guthrie on the board here (Thanks again!), unfortunately the fine-thread 3/8x24 axle adjuster pots were a little buggared up.

Found a random 3/8 NF tap to chase the threads, carefully mucked with it for about half an hour trying to get it started in the threads before realizing it was a left-hand tap. WTF. At least I didn't "persuade" it any more than I did.

Got myself a proper thread chaser and with a lot of lube and washing out got it re-established. In hind sight it would have been really good to grab a rifle bore brush to clean out the cut gunk. May still do that if they continue to feel gritty...

IMG_3095 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3096 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3097 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 02-04-2016, 11:10 AM   #68
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Some progress, exciting parts arrivals, more teardown and attempted arson!

First off, got the round swingarm in hand and the existing tapered bearings were sad looking... at least that's what I was assuming they looked like under that 7 lbs of grease.

IMG_3133 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

The other side was missing the seal flange thing and the bearing cage was spun in the housing. That was easy (ish) to beat out.

IMG_3134 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Then zero progress, lots of pounding with a drift with little effect (and little desire to get tooooo crazy on it). The inner lip of the outter race, still left stubbornly in the housing) is protected by a seat in the housing... so getting a purchase on it for pummeling was slow going. Until someone on here suggested welding a nub on the race to pound against. Damn near lit the whole thing on fire. Turns out grease is flammable.

SUCCESS.

IMG_3141 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3140 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

New bearings are on the way, and I'm going to try to clean this guy up as much as I can (for mockup purposes at least) until then.

Also got the stock clutch basket pulled off the mainshaft, and the front pulley. Ready to replace with the belt primary.... once I can find a shop to press out the Primo clutch hub out of this old setup and into the new basket.

IMG_3131 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3132 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

I also need to just sit and stare at this for a while while I imagine up foot control solutions. I want to keep things open but am too much of a pussy to run with at fully open belt... not for gross bodily harm issues just dont want my pants and shit chewed up in it. Or my foot, that applies too.

So, the left side puzzle is minimal but good looking belt guard (mostly guarding the upper, rear portion of the front belt... the hungry bit) with the foot peg location with a clutch pedal. All looking sezzy of course.

And with the tins out of the way I can get at the speedo gear, replacing it with a plug form Baker.

IMG_3137 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Small victories.
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Old 02-04-2016, 11:15 AM   #69
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

I think our adopted Japanese kickass builder friend Mr. Daikoube has the right idea for my setup... taking inspiration from his PERFECTLY well executed Knuckle (NOT my pics).














I like the integration of the foot mount, mounting location, and integrating that with a good looking pulley guard.

Plus its never a bad time to ogle that bike again.
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:29 PM   #70
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

New bits! Got a new front wheel/brake combo.

Its a '68 Bonneville TLS 19" round thing. Very excited how this looks all mocked up.

IMG_3165 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3166 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3167 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

The 8" drum is a big boy. Classy stopping.

IMG_3150 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3151 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

She should clean up nice...

IMG_3154 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:43 PM   #71
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

Now for the question and answer period: Getting the Triumph wheel to the Harley wide glide.

What I know thus far:
-Triumph is designed for a 20mm axle.
-Harley axle is 3/4" (~19mm).
-Bearings in the Triumph hub are Timken/Fafnir 204k, 20mm bore x 47mm OD x 14mm wide.
-The backing plate is also sleeved to ride on a 20mm axle.

My plan was to make a combo axle sleeve/inner spacer like this after putting in new bearings (the 6204-2RS are the sealed 20mm bore replacements for the 204k's) like this (from DBBP.com):



And then typical 3/4" spacers outside the hub for centering the wheel and side load transfer.

BUT. That would leave around 0.5mm of meat left on the sleeve between the stock axle and the inner race. Seems not only small but a pain to machine.

OR the other option is to make a copy of the Harley wide-glide axle with a 20mm center section instead of 3/4". Then in assembly I'll have a set three of 20mm ID spacers to go between the fork leg and bearing, between the bearings, and between the opposite bearing and opposite leg. Same philosophy as before.

So... which option does ya'll suggest?

Pics of junk:

Triumph axle:
IMG_3159 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Triumph left side bearing on the axle:
IMG_3161 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Trans Atlantic axle standoff:
IMG_3163 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3164 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Figurin' the bearing OD:
IMG_3158 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Right side bearing in the hub, the backing plate rides on this inner race:
IMG_3157 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:20 AM   #72
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

To some rear swingarm work...

You may recall that the bike came with a square shovel style swingarm. That wont do. So I got more or less to the end of the swingarm conversion part of the sage (minus re-painting).

The "new" more-period-correcter swingarm had.... shall we say... "crusty" bearings. Needed replacement.

IMG_3133 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Getting them out was learning experience. Basically lots of pounding (and cleaning overloads of excess grease) yielded this:

IMG_3140 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

And that inner race was STUBBORN. Finally got it out with a little help from JJ-ers by welding a lil goober on it for traction with the drift. Then more hammering.

IMG_3141 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

New race going in, with the perfectly sized impact socket to even application of violence.

IMG_3192 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Checking even seating:

IMG_3193 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

New tapered roller thingies:

IMG_3196 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Basic assembly:

IMG_3197 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Turns out the stud on the right had pretty jacked up threads. Also turns out that buying a new set of (cheapo) studs is basically the same as getting the 5/8"x18 die with a large die holder. So... re cut the threads, keep the OEM studs and save my bike from another overseas part. Feels good.

LARO8402 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Install swingarm (getting drag roughly set, everything's going to come apart later for refinishing then get all locktite'd and torqued).

IMG_3199 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

Still have the 12" shocks... not sure if I am going to keep them for the lower ride or find some 13.5"-ers.

IMG_3202 by Eric Bott, on Flickr
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:13 PM   #73
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

very cool!!

i've got one of those same front hubs, laced to an 18" for a future project. My plan was to make a whole new axle (option B in your case).

What are your plans for the brake stay? welding a tab to the lowers?
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:39 PM   #74
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very cool!!

i've got one of those same front hubs, laced to an 18" for a future project. My plan was to make a whole new axle (option B in your case).

What are your plans for the brake stay? welding a tab to the lowers?
Thanks man, glad you diggit.

Oh yeah... with the hub. I have a new axle out for machining. Option A is bad in my case because that sleeve would be ~0.5mm thick between the inner race and harley axle. Seems too thin and sketch. So I'm making another axle, copying the wide glide one but with the center section 20mm rather than 3/4". Then its just a matter of getting the spacers cut for the "harley style" application rather than the captured Triumph style.

For the stay, I am likely going to shave the legs down to the lower brake bolt ear on the right side and make an anchoring bracket to stick in the backing plate slot. Its already at a perfect height, and all the other casting BS can go.

IMG_3169 by Eric Bott, on Flickr

IMG_3168 by Eric Bott, on Flickr


The stay itself will be attached at that lower hole and the outter bearing spacer. I got the inspiration from seeing the PM caliper adapter on the Lowbrow Pan-American build. Going to make it thick and steel and beefy. Maybe lightly modify the anchor point in the backing plate for a lil through bolt to retain the tab for peace of mind (there is a lot of meat around the casting on the back side). At least thats the plan in my head. I am just wanting to get the axle made, bearings replaced, and spacers fab'd first... then I'll see where everything is at and cross that bridge then.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:57 PM   #75
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

The Pan-American caliper setup:




So, like this (anchored at the axle and a single brake tab) but the anchor on my hub will be in line with the fork leg and (theoretically) the whole thing will be quite visually minimal other than the one brake tab.

Welding a Triumph-style nub onto my fork lower would be the most minimal solution, but since the wide glide legs are much further away than the stock Trumpet ones I am concerned about the torque/leverage they'd have to overcome rather than pure shear forces.

And I'm not equipped to weld aluminum.

And it's a cast lower. And welding that seems more scary. And again, I'm not equipped to glue Al.

Steel is reel.
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:04 PM   #76
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

I would think that welding a tab to the leg is a very elegant and good looking solution. Everytime you add stuff to something that could be an elegant design makes it look cheap and begs the question "but why didn't he....."

I suggest getting a block of aluminum 1.5" wide and whittle it down so it has a round tapered side to match the forkleg and on the other side keeps the wider base for a 1/4" and then gradually narrows to become the brake anchor. Like the mountain in strange encounters or the Matterhorn in Disneyland...
Aluminum welders are everywhere. Aside from welding shops street rod places always have somebody who can weld alloy. Motor rebuilders also always know somebody.
This way you will be totally custom and the envy of Seattle...
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:10 PM   #77
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I would think that welding a tab to the leg is a very elegant and good looking solution. Everytime you add stuff to something that could be an elegant design makes it look cheap and begs the question "but why didn't he....."

I suggest getting a block of aluminum 1.5" wide and whittle it down so it has a round tapered side to match the forkleg and on the other side keeps the wider base for a 1/4" and then gradually narrows to become the brake anchor. Like the mountain in strange encounters or the Matterhorn in Disneyland...
Aluminum welders are everywhere. Aside from welding shops street rod places always have somebody who can weld alloy. Motor rebuilders also always know somebody.
This way you will be totally custom and the envy of Seattle...
Well when you put it that way...

"The envy of Seattle" has a nice ring to it.

Welding some 6000-series to the leg casting shouldn't prove a problem for a competent Al welder? And making a wide-based tapered anchor shape will make it strong enough for the torque and shear loads?
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:46 PM   #78
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Default Re: '55 Panhead Yet-To-Be-Named

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Welding some 6000-series to the leg casting shouldn't prove a problem for a competent Al welder? And making a wide-based tapered anchor shape will make it strong enough for the torque and shear loads?
I'm pretty sure you would be fine. Sure being based on that engineering degree I received some 45 years ago If you want to go all out you could also build up the receptacle on the backing plate.
The leg won't turn because the axle won't let it and if you have a nice fit there will be no sound.
I think your bike just got a name..
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:20 PM   #79
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I'm pretty sure you would be fine. Sure being based on that engineering degree I received some 45 years ago If you want to go all out you could also build up the receptacle on the backing plate.
The leg won't turn because the axle won't let it and if you have a nice fit there will be no sound.
I think your bike just got a name..
Your 45 year old engineering degree trumps my 5 year old laser-microscopy Phd. :P Its on! Luckily I've got some time to work out the logistics of this now, its not going to be a blocker for a bit...

She's had a few names float in and out but none have stuck. All my motorbikes have gotten very awesome "organic" names. Recently she's been officially dubbed "Zodiac", I just can't figure out how to update the thread title

But every good aristocrat needs a TITLE, not just a name.

"Zodiac: The Envy of Seattle"

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Old 02-12-2016, 08:53 PM   #80
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I'm sure one of our moderators can help you updating the thread title. It is kinda catchy.
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