Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs - The Jockey Journal Board

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Old 12-16-2011, 08:43 PM   #1
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Default Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Results on my Stock 1965 XLCH, with stock bore/stroke, P cams, Fixed Magneto, SU Carb, 2" pipes & -62 mufflers w/ 3/4" hole reamed in them.

This is a VERY good running bike, so I believe this is a good example of a stock 900.

You wiil see a couple blank areas in the curves, I believe this is due to the RF issues I am having w/ the electronics and the magneto ignition.

Im sure I could get rid of the slight torque dip around 3200 w/ some tweaking.



Here is another run w/ a different exhaust.
This exhaust is a unknown brand 1.750" pipes w/ combined mufflers.
The angled baffle plate has been reamed w/ a 1" thru hole.

Notice the max TQ and HP are about the same but this exhaust has a much more noticeable dip in the 3200 range.




Here are some results of Harley PB cams in my stock 900.

First let me say these cams were nearly impossible to get tuned, and this run shown still did not have a optimal ARF curve.
I had been doing all my runs for comparison w/ the same parts.
Well the SU w/ only a main circuit and a needle was not up to the tuning challenge.
I installed the trusty CV w/ much more tuning capabilities and although I did get better results, tuning the AFR w/ these cams was still a bitch.
It is richer than necessary from 2500 until about 4000, then starts going lean up to 5500. I even had to shim .200 under a NOKH needle to get the midrange decent.

I have no idea how anyone back in the day ran these PB cams on a stock 900 w/o issue, especially w/o a AFR monitor and dyno.
Im sure they do work well if setup correctly and w/ the right combination.
If I intended on running these PBs I would spend more time adjusting and possibly try some other pipes, I think a 2:1 would definitely help w/ these cams.
Im sure this combo could make more power if you really wanted to spend time w/ setup.
There is a gain and a loss as you will see.
I will be sticking w/ the original bolt in no fuss P cams, that give awesome results for a stock cam IMO.

Stock 1965 XLCH, with stock bore/stroke, P cams, Fixed Magneto, SU Carb, 2" pipes & -62 mufflers w/ 3/4" hole reamed in them.
The only differences in this run 407 (orange) is the PB cams and the CV carb .200" shim under NOKH needle 46 pilot / 185 main, stock spring.

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Old 12-16-2011, 11:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Thanks, for sharing the info. You've definetly put a lot of time and effort into dialing this engine in. I've got a 900 that I'm putting andrews Q cams in and a "baby" SU on. Its a '70 engine with a stock circuit breaker. Its a ways off though, got too many projects in front of it.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

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Originally Posted by gasketscraper View Post
Thanks, for sharing the info. You've definetly put a lot of time and effort into dialing this engine in. I've got a 900 that I'm putting andrews Q cams in and a "baby" SU on. Its a '70 engine with a stock circuit breaker. Its a ways off though, got too many projects in front of it.
Q cams are Harley, they were not offered in a xlch (magneto style)
Possibly you have your letters confused? Andrews Y or X ?
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Interesting as hell... thanks for sharing that information and data.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

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Originally Posted by FlameThrower View Post
Interesting as hell... thanks for sharing that information and data.
This thread has some runs on my stroker:
http://jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91571
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Very good info on what it takes for dialing in. (Peaking the motor)

I run an early HD6 1-3/4 SU...
Sure was a chore to dial in the jetting.
Picking the right needle and piston spring was a job..



Being this carb was from the era of the bike...(Came off a 59 Jag)... I wanted to keep it...Many times the thought was there to shit-can and bolt on a Harley CV or an S&S carb...
But with the HELP of JOE CURTO "The SU King"....Got it dial in...

He has in stock parts for any model SU,. He also makes alot of upgrades for them....
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Old 12-22-2011, 02:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

[QUOTE=chevelle;786771]Q cams are Harley, they were not offered in a xlch (magneto style)
Possibly you have your letters confused? Andrews Y or X ?[/QUOTE

Thanks, for the clarification. Dusted the box off. They are Andrews R(5?) cams. Geared for a mag. Don't know why I was thinking Q.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

There is an update, I did a few changes on the 900.
Click the link for the info.

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s....php?t=1222275
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

That 2 into 1 looks like a solid low end winner.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

I want to know how the Bike runs on a Back Road Ride - Seat of the Pants with those H cams..
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

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Originally Posted by Monte03 View Post
I want to know how the Bike runs on a Back Road Ride - Seat of the Pants with those H cams..
The bike now feels more powerful than my stroker.
It is really strong after 4000, but down low is a huge improvement as well.
Very fun on twisty back roads 3000-5000.
The CV helped get the most out of the H's.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Okay so I have to ask your opinion Chevelle. I have stock CR Keith Black pistons with my own polishing job on the heads. A 2-1 exhaust of my own design, it uses SuperTrapp discs. Using a CV carb and electronic ignition. It is a '71 900. Do you think I would really benefit from those H cams? Would I make more HP? Thanks for posting your findings, I enjoy all the tech stuff.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

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Originally Posted by Jtw79 View Post
Okay so I have to ask your opinion Chevelle. I have stock CR Keith Black pistons with my own polishing job on the heads. A 2-1 exhaust of my own design, it uses SuperTrapp discs. Using a CV carb and electronic ignition. It is a '71 900. Do you think I would really benefit from those H cams? Would I make more HP? Thanks for posting your findings, I enjoy all the tech stuff.
Not to Hi Jack but you'd have to bring Tom Sifton Back as these H Cams were late Sixties early 70's.. Bravo Chevelle to the awesome Tuning..
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:42 AM   #14
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Monte03 I hear you, those cams will be like finding a needle in a haystack. Just thought I would toss the question out to see what the resident experts thought. Thanks!
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

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Monte03 I hear you, those cams will be like finding a needle in a haystack. Just thought I would toss the question out to see what the resident experts thought. Thanks!
Keep your Eyes peeled on a set of HH .475 Cams, I had them in my 66CH 900 years back with R Valves, awesome Street- Occasional Drag Basting Cams, smooth at all rpm levels..
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

New update, R5 cams:

http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/s...1222275&page=7
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

I have read this thread, followed the changes on this motor over at XL, and looked through your stroker thread too. I just don't get why the stroker isn't making a goodly percentage more power than the stock motor. unless something is amiss in the compression dept I would have thought the stroker would have made at least 15% more power over the stock motor.

What am I missing here?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

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I have read this thread, followed the changes on this motor over at XL, and looked through your stroker thread too. I just don't get why the stroker isn't making a goodly percentage more power than the stock motor. unless something is amiss in the compression dept I would have thought the stroker would have made at least 15% more power over the stock motor.

What am I missing here?
I know what your saying, I will be addressing the 65" soon.
The 65" stroker has been together since the early 80's.
I also believe the heads are way over ported in the stroker.
Remember it was making quite a bit more power compared to the stock 900 when I started all this tuning.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

If the heads on the 900's have ports in them that even remotely resemble the 1000 ports, the STOCK ports are too much port for the bore size. I can't say I have seen 900cc ports first hand, but the 1000cc ports are gutter pipes.

I have some plans to play some games like what you re playing with yours, and see the results, including shrinking the ports. Even at 1500rpm velocity would make more power than MASS air, and mass air seems to be what everyone shoots for when porting. I recall reading an article in some 70's/80's rag that was an interview and tech session with Jerry Branch, and even he said port size was an issue on almost any pre-evo harley. I don't recall the complete article, but he played games with his trusty welder and grinder on the flow bench trying to get the writer to understand velocity vs max air flow.

The jist of it was to plan on velocity AND max airflow, but don't cut the velocity out of it by gutter piping the port MORE than the factory did.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Runs

Now, this site has cropped up here before, and some called it hokey crap. Well, I like hokey crap, and I enjoy playing with fluid dynamics. Now, before anyone says "fluid?!", think hard. Air is a gas, but gases flow like fluids. Anyway, here is the site, and the theory is sound as per a friend of mine who does fluid dynamics research for the Army.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/thanx.htm

See the links to 18-21. There is one specifically at Harley on 14 I think.

While some say it is hokey, and some aren't sure what to think, I plan to buy a second set of heads for mine and play with these theories on both a flow bench and the dyno.

Chevelle, your pipe research is going to aim me at some real add on to this. I am watching and paying attention to your results.
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