Hey guys quick question Im a noob&I tinker with cars mostly &on all mt body work I have a gasless flux core welder.I finally gor my project bike running awhilw back&wanr to hardtail it myself its a 74 aermacchi/harley sprint 350.I have a guy who will do it if I pay him but Id like tovdo it myself so I can be prouder of it.Ive used the flux core welder to make some handle bars&weld a cracked swingarm but not sure if it'll be safe?Thanks in advance
220v or 110v? If it is 110v I'd say no. At least not on something I'd be betting my balls on. I can understand the pride taken in doing it yourself but the old saying "Pride cometh before the fall" might be applicable here.
Its 110..yeah thinking maybe I should have him do it or...buy a diffrent welder not sure.I just did a search on google&saw someone said to tac it all around&grind tac&grind.¬ to run a bead on the hardtail because of warping.That dosnt sound right to me.But like I said Im a noob.
I did a number of suspension swaps on F-100 Fords (Volare K members). I used my old Hobart 110 and ran NR211 flux core wire. It ran hot enough to get full penetration. None of them ever failed, that I am aware of. I am a certified welder, so my skills may be a bit better than yours, but, done properly, 110V flux core is fine. Frame tubing is thin and you would never crank up a 220V unit anywhere near the maximum amperage of your 110V unit to weld light material like that.
Im looking for a 79 f series now.Thanks for the info...what blows is my grandpa used to build bikes for a living&had tons of stuff in mags etc but I was still wet around my ears when he was doing it to learn much&my old man went to school for welding&did it for years but hes pretty banged up&cant get around much he died once&said he cant remember much.So Im reading all I can.Just hit a score found a tube full of old bsa dealer posters gpa had in his shop
Flux core is not as strong of weld as hard wire with argon or a co 2 mix. Flux core is a milder steel . Use .026 hard wire with the argon for a much stronger and cleaner weld.
you should probably not use a gasless flux core for the hardtail
in the hands of an experienced welder it probably could get by but I wouldnt chance it
to be honest I wouldnt really trust anything for a frame etc. unless it was tig welded
I know mig welding can be done properly and is strong but you just dont get that great consistently with a mig as you do with a tig
if you cant tig I would maybe tack everything up nice and good with your fluxcore and bring it to someone that can tig weld
I've seen lots of hardtails stick welded. Folks used to gas weld racing frames too.
Paughco frames are MIG welded now days.
Lots of options, but you need to know what you're doing.
I just looked at my Lincoln 110 mig. It says .250+ with flux core wire. I wouldn't do it (see my "know what you're doing" statement), but the machine is capable.
Larry T
I have recently taken a course at a local comm. college and highly recommend it. Even with that, and now some serious time under the hood with "real welders" I would agree with everything mentioned above. Tack it, send it out AND ask the welder if you can watch and check out his gear.
Whoa you guys rock,thanks for all of the info.Im gonna go ahead&tac it&have some one tig it I guess since that seems to be what most agree on.So I dont end up walking funnt how much should I look @paing for that?
I have been hobby welding for 35 years never had a important weld fail. Ask questions read books and DO IT you will never do a good weld without practice. frames have been brazed, gas welded, stick welded, mig and tig weld for years and good welds on frames don't fail. Grab your Balls practice a little and weld your frame or be a pussy sell your welder and pay someone to do it like a girly NOB would do. My 2 cents, now I'll stand back (have I lit the fire). Better get a electric starter and trike wheels for that bike (it could be dangerous)
The tube looks to be machine mitered. I can't speak to the angle being correct, so the fit up may not have been perfect, but it looks like it was purely a weld failure.
Come on now, I'm no pro but I own a 110v 90amp flux core and have used it to some things that helped me understand that I needed to learn more.
Its a good starting point on the basics. BASICS. I built a stand for some horse saddles, it's still standing, that's the type of shit a 90 amp 110v is good for.
Like someone said, get a book, stalk over at the weldweb forum. Good info over there. I agree, that you shouldn't be scared to do your own welding, but you should be smart about it too. And don't be Billy bad ass and look into archs with no helmet on......trust me.
Come on now, I'm no pro but I own a 110v 90amp flux core and have used it to some things that helped me understand that I needed to learn more.
Its a good starting point on the basics. BASICS. I built a stand for some horse saddles, it's still standing, that's the type of shit a 90 amp 110v is good for.
Like someone said, get a book, stalk over at the weldweb forum. Good info over there. I agree, that you shouldn't be scared to do your own welding, but you should be smart about it too. And don't be Billy bad ass and look into archs with no helmet on......trust me.
im not even gonna read all these but guys using flux core...dont be a tight wad! Buy a bottle setup! Flux core is for building bridges and battleships...
Man...110 flux core IFS swaps sound scary even if they haven't failed...done plenty with 220 mig and tig...
Why??? 110V flux core wire, using a good machine (I can't speak for the HF, Chinese machines) will blow holes in any automobile frame made. The welds that I did on the IFS swaps penetrated all the way through to the insides of the rails. You could clearly see the bead from the inside. The welds were 3/8", done in a single pass. I did about 10-12 of them and all are still on the road as far as I know. Nobody ever came back and told me any of them failed. Why is 220V better than 110V when the maximum amperage of the smaller machine is not being utilized? Heat is heat. It doesn't care how many volts it needs to achieve the required amount. It's like saying a Zippo won't light a cigarette, you need a rosebud torch. Do you know that Kent Fuller welded the chassis for Tommy Ivo's 4 engine Buick dragster with an oxy-actylene torch. It's still in one piece. That being said, I would never do something like a trailer hitch with a 110V unit. As far as flux core being for bridges and battleships, that's true. I've run miles of the stuff on bridges, high rises and the L.A. Metro Rail system. If it will hold them together, I think it will hold a hardtail on a bike. I would MIG it, myself, because I just like it better plus, I'm a crummy TIG welder. People tend to badmouth flux core and, even, MIG because TIG is the darling or the black art of welding, so it has achieved mythical status. You only have to mention words like TIG, board certified, micro brewed or chromemoly and people nod their heads and go, "Ooooohhh, yeah, that's best."
I welded up my sidecar frame with an ancient Montgomery Ward 220v arc welder. I'm not a "certified" welder but I like sticks. Penetration is the key. I have a 110v wire feed that I use flux cored wire in. I use it to weld on small brackets. But nothing I'd have to bet my balls on.
Its all fine and dandy saying "man up", "grow some balls" blah, blah. But if you don't know or are not sure what you're doing bravery won't make up for lack of skill.
Its all fine and dandy saying "man up", "grow some balls" blah, blah. But if you don't know or are not sure what you're doing bravery won't make up for lack of skill.
True. and good point.
But the guys that are supposedly skillfully welding with "sub par" or "not the right equipment" are the ones i worry about here. I know the good folks at Miller Electric and i am sure you could get some "real" opinions if the OP wants.
I think the key here, Carl, is you say "I've run miles of the stuff" and cutthroat says "I'm a noob". Worlds apart. Kent Fuller knew what he was doing as you obviously do too. Could I gas weld a frame? Maybe but I wouldn't want to be the driver. You could stick a scalpel in my hand and I could cut someone open but that doesn't make me a surgeon. If Cutthroat hasn't the skill or confidence I think it would be best if he had it welded. Particularly for something as crucial as a frame.
Yup. I guess that's the real issue. If your skills aren't up to snuff, then you should stick to making speedo mounts, sculptures from old horseshoes and other, non critical, stuff
I'm kind of surprised nobody pointed this out yet: if you have to ask whether your equipment will do a job that you'll bet your balls on, then your skills are not up to that job. Period.
Please, no offense intended to anyone, but that idea should be self-evident and self-explanatory.
Have your frame welded by a pro. If you really want to do one yourself, take a class and do a crapload of practicing. Weld stuff together and then tear it up. By the time you build the next frame, you'll have a better idea whether you have the skills and equipment to do it right.
I'm kind of surprised nobody pointed this out yet: if you have to ask whether your equipment will do a job that you'll bet your balls on, then your skills are not up to that job. Period.
Please, no offense intended to anyone, but that idea should be self-evident and self-explanatory.
Have your frame welded by a pro. If you really want to do one yourself, take a class and do a crapload of practicing. Weld stuff together and then tear it up. By the time you build the next frame, you'll have a better idea whether you have the skills and equipment to do it right.
That's funny, because flux core, stick and sub arc are the only three processes that are pre approved for all structural welding. You can present a set of plans for a 100 story highrise building and tell the people in planning that you are going to use flux core wire and there are no questions asked. Do I think that flux core is best for bike frames? No. Do I think it will work? Yes, if the man and the machine are up to it. Dirty? It does spatter like stick. It is, essentially, stick turned inside out. Brittle? When I got certified for semi automatic, I had to weld a sample that was cut into coupons. They were put unto a press and bent 180 degrees. Had they been brittle, they would have failed. They did not. Dangerous? Explain. Again, I would not flux core a bike frame. MIG is cleaner
Carl it is because i have done flux core 110 mig before i really knew better and i have the knowledge, skill, and tools to do it better now. I think 220 mig is fine for IFS swaps on old cars or trucks (i have the experience to back it up too). My own '68 F-100 i did with the 220 Miller Mig for the most part untill i got a new Miller Dynasty 200 TIG and then did other chassis stuff with it. I am not a certified welder. I have worked in car fab shops doing this kind of stuff for over 10 years and if nothing else appearance is a big reason why i wouldn't use flux core. We don't use it in this industry, there is no "need" for it. That and i have seen higher end 110 mig machines not work well, there is one in my shop now, brand new "red" one and it sucks. there is something wrong with it and i won't weld anything with it.
In fact, my very first MIG was a flux core craftman that i struggled with for a long time as i was learning on my own at 17 years old. Later i used something else it then i realized that it wasn't me that was the problem, it was also a machine with issues.
I don't know that burning through the other side of your base material is a good thing either, especially for a beginner. Under cutting a weld can be just as dangerous as not enough amperage. I guess this just comes down to knowing what you are doing, right?
So for a beginner to go at something like this that carries such liability i would advise differently. I would also not 110 flux my own truck chassis together, but i am glad you are fine with it and have had no problems (that's not to be read sarcastically either, you know how the internet is.)
If you asked me this same stuff 12 or 13 years ago i would probably be fine with it...
tig or mig the tube is cut to a tight fit to the neck so the weld has no depth,i do a lot of mpi inspection as part of my job and ive seen a lot of cracked welds of all bead sizes,convex and concave,mig and tig.a good weld on a bad prep is a bad weld.
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