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Steering Stem Rake Bearing Questions.................

18K views 52 replies 9 participants last post by  Johnny-5 
#1 ·
Im wanting to go with a springer front end which it is a 1" steering stem so Ill have to convert my 69 stock steering I believe its 7/8.

Im also wanting to go from stock 30 degree rake to 35 and was going to have the stem cut and welded but Im being told that they have race kits that have a 5 degree rake to them?

So basically Im needing to convert my bearings and also looking for a set that rakes the front end. Basically all in one. Im being told they have it but I cant find anything on it.

Thanks in advance.
 
#4 ·
Ok let me rephrase this a bit. Im also doing a search around on google as well as on here!


Anyways I just picked this up last night thus the questions regarding the dimensions on the late springers.

Anyways Im reading a few places and its stating that the late model springers (I believe this is a 90's) and just want to know if this is pre-raked 3 degrees? I would love to rake the bike from 30 to 35 degree. Im being told that they have 5 degree rake cups which Ive found but I have a 69 Frame which doesnt utilize the 1" stem. Im not able to find a 1" conversion kit and also raked 5 degree. I believe the highest I found was 3 on a 1" conversion kit. But than it also depends on the springer if its rake or not raked.

Any info on this would be great. Ive attached a picture of the springer I picked up.
 

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#16 ·
Ok let me rephrase this a bit. Im also doing a search around on google as well as on here!

Anyways I just picked this up last night thus the questions regarding the dimensions on the late springers.

Anyways Im reading a few places and its stating that the late model springers (I believe this is a 90's) and just want to know if this is pre-raked 3 degrees? I would love to rake the bike from 30 to 35 degree. Im being told that they have 5 degree rake cups which Ive found but I have a 69 Frame which doesnt utilize the 1" stem. Im not able to find a 1" conversion kit and also raked 5 degree. I believe the highest I found was 3 on a 1" conversion kit. But than it also depends on the springer if its rake or not raked.

Any info on this would be great. Ive attached a picture of the springer I picked up.
As others have mentioned here, the HD spinger has a 3 degree reverse rake in the stem. No one I am aware of makes anything with more than 3 degrees in a raked cup set; there just isn't room in the head.

If you want to end up with 35 degrees of rake with that front end, you will need to rake your frame to 38 degrees: 38-3=35. Then the question will be whether that front end is going to be long enough.

If it were my project, I would sell that front end, and buy a Paugho HD replica in the correct length for whatever rake you decide you want to end up with. Paugho's springers are available with no rake, or positive rake in models 8" over and longer. Going from 27 degrees to 35 degrees is probably going to require 2-4" over in the legs.
 
#5 ·
Johny, yes it looks to be a Soft tail springer front end. They have an offset stem which in fact does give them a built-in rake. But, its what you might call a "de-rake" because it pulls the wheel in towards the frame rather than pushing it out away from the frame. There are two versions of the late model Harley springers. The one used on the FX models have around 3 degrees of "de-rake" and the ones used on the FL models have a bit more. You can tell the difference between them by the raised letters "FL" or "FX" on the bottom of the lower "tripple tree". Also, the FX has the brake on the right and the FL has the brake on the left. The left side rocker has a slightly different axle hole to accomodate the brake set-up on the FL as well.

Regards,
Geo.
 
#6 ·
Geo Thank you for your response. Going off of what your stating Im guessing mine is a FX as the brake is on the right side. How does that work when its de-raked? Does that mean my stock 30 degree rake would now be only 27 degree? Sorry once again all this is totally new to me.

What would I need to do to get my rake out to about 35 degree? Are the bearing cups good and safe?

Johny, yes it looks to be a Soft tail springer front end. They have an offset stem which in fact does give them a built-in rake. But, its what you might call a "de-rake" because it pulls the wheel in towards the frame rather than pushing it out away from the frame. There are two versions of the late model Harley springers. The one used on the FX models have around 3 degrees of "de-rake" and the ones used on the FL models have a bit more. You can tell the difference between them by the raised letters "FL" or "FX" on the bottom of the lower "tripple tree". Also, the FX has the brake on the right and the FL has the brake on the left. The left side rocker has a slightly different axle hole to accomodate the brake set-up on the FL as well.

Regards,
Geo.
 
#7 ·
Those newer type springers are deraked, as explained by old.wrench.

Those springers never look right on an older frame. I'm not sure if raked cups are going to help or hurt you? With raked cups and a deraked springer, who knows what kind of trail you're going to have? Is your frame stock rake?
 
#9 ·
Yes my frame is stock and I checked it and its 30 degrees.

Those newer type springers are deraked, as explained by old.wrench.

Those springers never look right on an older frame. I'm not sure if raked cups are going to help or hurt you? With raked cups and a deraked springer, who knows what kind of trail you're going to have? Is your frame stock rake?
 
#15 ·
Johnny, The front end you have is top quality. I'm running one on a rigid shovel myself. I don't have any thing against the DNA's but in my opinion,they're not even in the same league as the late model Harley springer. I probably used the wrong term when I called it "deraked", actually it is an "off set" springer. I was trying to describe the affect it would have on the total front end rake on your bike. If you study that front end a little bit you can understand why the Factory would de-rake it. It allowed Harley to use the same frame, with the same neck angle on both the Springer and the model with the conventional glide front end. The result is that the front axle ends up in about the same place relative to the neck on both models even though axle is pushed forward by the rockers on the Springer. Another result is that the trail number would also be close to same on both the springer and the glide (to be honest, I've never run the numbers on this, but I can see it in my head :D). In my opinion the only thing that detracts from the look of the late model springers may be the way the shock absorber looks. I've gotten around that by shaving off the lower shock mount on the front "spring" fork, and using the top shock mount on the rear "rigid" fork for a headlight mount. Although I think it looks better, it really did ride better with the shock.

Regards,
Geo.
 
#18 ·
Do you happen to have a picture of your bike? Would love to see how it looks on the bike.

Johnny, The front end you have is top quality. I'm running one on a rigid shovel myself. I don't have any thing against the DNA's but in my opinion,they're not even in the same league as the late model Harley springer. I probably used the wrong term when I called it "deraked", actually it is an "off set" springer. I was trying to describe the affect it would have on the total front end rake on your bike. If you study that front end a little bit you can understand why the Factory would de-rake it. It allowed Harley to use the same frame, with the same neck angle on both the Springer and the model with the conventional glide front end. The result is that the front axle ends up in about the same place relative to the neck on both models even though axle is pushed forward by the rockers on the Springer. Another result is that the trail number would also be close to same on both the springer and the glide (to be honest, I've never run the numbers on this, but I can see it in my head :D). In my opinion the only thing that detracts from the look of the late model springers may be the way the shock absorber looks. I've gotten around that by shaving off the lower shock mount on the front "spring" fork, and using the top shock mount on the rear "rigid" fork for a headlight mount. Although I think it looks better, it really did ride better with the shock.

Regards,
Geo.
 
#23 ·
Ok Ive done some researching last night and pondering on different methods. I was actually tempted on selling it out of fustration but kept searching and Ive found a few places that sell Racked Stems for Springers that you put on and rakes it about 5 degree's. This should resolve the de-raked that this springer has! Ive also considered maybe even spinning the stem the other way making it from -3 degree to +3 degree by just flipping the stem.

Im thinking of doing the aftermarket 5 degree stem conversion so that saves me on modifying the frame!

What do you all think? This way I keep what I have and dont have to look for another springer and less work for the frame modification and since the rake stems vary in different degrees I can figure out what I need to be at.
 
#25 ·
Ok Ive done some researching last night and pondering on different methods. I was actually tempted on selling it out of fustration but kept searching and Ive found a few places that sell Racked Stems for Springers that you put on and rakes it about 5 degree's. This should resolve the de-raked that this springer has! Ive also considered maybe even spinning the stem the other way making it from -3 degree to +3 degree by just flipping the stem.

Im thinking of doing the aftermarket 5 degree stem conversion so that saves me on modifying the frame!

What do you all think? This way I keep what I have and dont have to look for another springer and less work for the frame modification and since the rake stems vary in different degrees I can figure out what I need to be at.
Why would you want to mess with your springer, more money, work, not knowing if it will be right, etc? Remember, you might not have the correct length front end either after all the work. Get your bike mocked up as you want it and then measure for the correct front end.
 
#24 ·
Johnny, it's not a simple matter of turning the stem 180 degrees to change the built in rake on the softail springers. The stem itself is straight, the "bottom tree" is bored and machined at a 3 degree angle off of the legs. I'm not familiar with the 5 degree conversion you speak of, I wonder if it involves some machine work on the bottom tree?

I re-read your first post, and I'm guessing your working with a '69 Sportster with the stock 7/8" neck bearings. It sounds like you have a picture in your mind of how you want this bike to look (of course ! !). It also sounds like you may be taking a tough road trying to get that look with this front end (don't get me wrong here, I'm not being critical, hell, I do the same thing myself but sometimes it gets expensive and takes a long time, and I end up re-doing it anyhow :D)

Regards,
Geo.
 
#26 ·
Ill have to double check as I really thought it was just the stem that was de-raked. The kit that I saw was everything needed for the 5 degree conversion with no machine work needed. Ill see if I can try to find the web link.

As for the frame yes Im working with a 69 so the cups are currently 7/8 so Ill have to convert it to 1".

Ive attached a picture of how Im wanting to build my bike.

Could you also attach a picture of your bike with the new springer on it? Im really curious to see how it looks? What did you do about the offset?

Johnny, it's not a simple matter of turning the stem 180 degrees to change the built in rake on the softail springers. The stem itself is straight, the "bottom tree" is bored and machined at a 3 degree angle off of the legs. I'm not familiar with the 5 degree conversion you speak of, I wonder if it involves some machine work on the bottom tree?

I re-read your first post, and I'm guessing your working with a '69 Sportster with the stock 7/8" neck bearings. It sounds like you have a picture in your mind of how you want this bike to look (of course ! !). It also sounds like you may be taking a tough road trying to get that look with this front end (don't get me wrong here, I'm not being critical, hell, I do the same thing myself but sometimes it gets expensive and takes a long time, and I end up re-doing it anyhow :D)

Regards,
Geo.
 

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#30 ·
Those zero frames are raked 38 degrees with an inline springer, and then goosenecked down from stock to level out the frame. The combination you are talking about could be dangerous. You will prob need to ditch the raked cup idea and rake/gooseneck your frame. Just make sure to do some trail calculations first so you know if this will work with the deraked springer
 
#38 ·
Thats why Im always on here posting and trying to figure things out. This is going to be my first Harley build. Especially when it comes to frame rake, trail, etc.

Ive done a few cafe racers but nothing this serious. Plus Im really loving the style of the zero bikes thus the passion on wanting to build something like it. Plus I havent seen one out here where I live so being the first is also another reason! :D

When all is done I may just have a shop help me with this. Because Im still confused as hell when it comes to rake and trail. lol
 
#31 ·
Johnny - An experienced shop can bring the late springer safely to 0 degrees or +3. We do this all the time here. It does not even mess up the chrome.
While the raked cups are great they do not make them I think for the early XL frame.
I suggest changing the stem to +3 and calling it quits. Save the rake job for a big twin where you will get your money back when you sell it.
The reason the late springers look odd is that the springs are too long making the front leg spring perch ride too low. You could fix that but again its not worth the money. Just ditch the ugly shock absorber and it will be fine.
 
#33 ·
golly johnny looks like you might as well buy a frame to match the springer,sorry for planting this seed,but I was thinking how would I fix this and like counted sheep frames started to jump over the fence in my mind,it is a viable option
 
#35 ·
#34 · (Edited)
Johnny, you broke the ice for me. Here's my first try at including a picture. I'm not sure I'll get it right on the first attempt. The bike ain't nothing special, just an old shovel. The front end is off a FL softail. I made up a special axle and brake stay mount so I could run an old springer drum brake with a star hub. I haven't shaved the lower shock mount off this fork, but I do have another chrome front spring fork that I have shaved and it looks nice and clean.

Sorry about the pictures, or lack of pictures to be more accurate.

 
#41 ·
I cant see the pictures! Can you repost it?

Johnny, you broke the ice for me. Here's my first try at including a picture. I'm not sure I'll get it right on the first attempt. The bike ain't nothing special, just an old shovel. The front end is off a FL softail. I made up a special axle and brake stay mount so I could run an old springer drum brake with a star hub. I haven't shaved the lower shock mount off this fork, but I do have another chrome front spring fork that I have shaved and it looks nice and clean.

 
#47 ·
Alright after some thinking Ive decided to sell this springer and go with either a repop or a older version springer.

Does anyone know where I can get a repop or OEM for a reasonable price? Also how are the V-Twin repops? Are they any good and worth the money? Are they pretty comparable to the older oem springers? Any other brands that you all can think of?
 
#51 ·
Thanks guys!

The only things Im seeing that are bad are that the fork stops will be off and will need to be modified and that in time to time they tend to move so welding is recommended!

Some are also stating that its probably better to go with standard cups and to make changes on the steering stem would probably be better.

Any thoughts!
 
#52 ·
Thanks guys!

Some are also stating that its probably better to go with standard cups and to make changes on the steering stem would probably be better.

Any thoughts!
Make the changes to your neck, by someone who knows what they're doing. I think playing with offsets in front ends and trying to compensate with neck cups is a risky situation.
 
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