VL/pan/4-speed question

[flattracklarry]

I'm putting a pan motor and 4-speed in a VL frame and am wondering how to set up the transmission mount. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Nads]

Hey man, it was great hanging out with you at SMSO.

[Big Nick]

there is a guy that comes to the shop I work at with a Gen/Shovel and 4 spd in a VL frame. I will see if I can find out what he did.

[flattracklarry]

there is a guy that comes to the shop I work at with a Gen/Shovel and 4 spd in a VL frame. I will see if I can find out what he did.

Thank you.

[flattracklarry]

Hey man, it was great hanging out with you at SMSO.

Ditto, Nads. You rule.

[Chopper Chaz]

I'm putting a pan motor and 4-speed in a VL frame and am wondering how to set up the transmission mount. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.if ya got a VL frame you will need to trim up on your tranny and clean the garbage brackets off the VL frame...you will need to have custom mounting studs made...longer...I assume you are running star hub mechanical brakes?? you will need a offset tranny sprocket also...that is about all I have run into pretty much bolt on...I also assume you are running pre 65 tranny?? Fill me in on that cuz that is what I am running...I had asked a couple "Rock Stars" on this very forum that are running the same setup and they never replied back...maybe they have no idea cuz somebody else done it for them DOH!!!...what a bunch of help there huh?? Dive right in you will get it figured out...BTW I am running the same setup with belt drive...

[flattracklarry]

if ya got a VL frame you will need to trim up on your tranny and clean the garbage brackets off the VL frame...you will need to have custom mounting studs made...longer...I assume you are running star hub mechanical brakes?? you will need a offset tranny sprocket also...that is about all I have run into pretty much bolt on...I also assume you are running pre 65 tranny?? Fill me in on that cuz that is what I am running...I had asked a couple "Rock Stars" on this very forum that are running the same setup and they never replied back...maybe they have no idea cuz somebody else done it for them DOH!!!...what a bunch of help there huh?? Dive right in you will get it figured out...BTW I am running the same setup with belt drive...

Pre-65 trans with a tin-enclosed chain primary. Irish Rich said something about using a modified BT trans plate. In any case, I want the mount to be adjustable, preferably with the rear trans adjuster bolt, though another mechanism could work. I've got a star hub/mech rear brake, but not sure I'll be using it. Offset tranny sprocket? Offset by how much? Who sells them? Thanks.

[Chopper Chaz]

Pre-65 trans with a tin-enclosed chain primary. Irish Rich said something about using a modified BT trans plate. In any case, I want the mount to be adjustable, preferably with the rear trans adjuster bolt, though another mechanism could work. I've got a star hub/mech rear brake, but not sure I'll be using it. Offset tranny sprocket? Offset by how much? Who sells them? Thanks.As far as the trans plate goes you do not need a trans plate for it to be adjustable...personally here's what I did...cut the lugs off the bottom of the tranny case the ones that go inside of the 4-speed tranny plate...at the back of the transmission there is a adjustment lug that also needs to be cut off so the transmission sits down on the VL trans mount now the tranny will slide forward and backwards with no problem...BTW there is no room for a 4-speed trans plate nor a heavily modified 4-speed plate, you do not need it...far as offset goes I mocked my Pan VL together and it looks to be atleast a 1/4 out of line on the transmission sprocket and rear wheel sprocket...when I start final assembly here in about a month or so I can let you know exactly what it is, I am running a mechanical rear wheel...if you need pictures of the trans mods let me know and I will email ya pictures of how I am setup...

[Panman51]

I'm putting a pan motor and 4-speed in a VL frame and am wondering how to set up the transmission mount. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Larry. I kinda went the other way, I put a '47UL in a '57 straight leg frame, and used a '35 trans case. The problem I came across was that the front engine mounts are different. I had to make spacers and add them under the front of the engine so it would set level. Does yours tilt forward when installed in the VL frame?

[justjeff]

Chaz can you send me those pics too?

[Chopper Chaz]

Chaz can you send me those pics too?not a problem...glad I can help more then I got...I will post them tonight so check back, that way I don't have to email them around...

[Chopper Chaz]

Larry. I kinda went the other way, I put a '47UL in a '57 straight leg frame, and used a '35 trans case. The problem I came across was that the front engine mounts are different. I had to make spacers and add them under the front of the engine so it would set level. Does yours tilt forward when installed in the VL frame?I'm not Larry but that answer is no...have to slot out the front motor mount on the brake side and majorly alter the frame to shoe horn a big twin in...

[flattracklarry]

Larry. I kinda went the other way, I put a '47UL in a '57 straight leg frame, and used a '35 trans case. The problem I came across was that the front engine mounts are different. I had to make spacers and add them under the front of the engine so it would set level. Does yours tilt forward when installed in the VL frame?
A plate was added to the front motor mount to accomodate the pan motor. You have some pics of your bike? Sounds cool.

[flattracklarry]

As far as the trans plate goes you do not need a trans plate for it to be adjustable...personally here's what I did...cut the lugs off the bottom of the tranny case the ones that go inside of the 4-speed tranny plate...at the back of the transmission there is a adjustment lug that also needs to be cut off so the transmission sits down on the VL trans mount now the tranny will slide forward and backwards with no problem...BTW there is no room for a 4-speed trans plate nor a heavily modified 4-speed plate, you do not need it...far as offset goes I mocked my Pan VL together and it looks to be atleast a 1/4 out of line on the transmission sprocket and rear wheel sprocket...when I start final assembly here in about a month or so I can let you know exactly what it is, I am running a mechanical rear wheel...if you need pictures of the trans mods let me know and I will email ya pictures of how I am setup...

Yes, I'd like to see those pics. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

[Panman51]

Don't have any recent pics, I'm putting the new 87" Flat motor back in at this time, but if you have the Feb/Mar issue of The Horse there's pics of it on pages 33 & 34 I think, thats close. Has the 74" U motor in the mag. Will post new pics soon. Maybe showing the reassembly.

[nocal4q]

I'm putting a pan motor and 4-speed in a VL frame and am wondering how to set up the transmission mount. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

larry- skip the trans plate. you dont need it. trans bolts right in with some shaving of the frame. i scooted my whole motor over to the left 1/4 of an inch. welded up all the engine mount holes added the plate to to engine mount then start tweaking out on it. after you do all the modifications make sure your frame is straight. mine was bent to begin with.

[Chopper Chaz]

I'm putting a pan motor and 4-speed in a VL frame and am wondering how to set up the transmission mount. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.Alright got the pics uploaded, first thing to do is on the right rear of the tranny mount area on the frame there is an old adjuster bracket that is forged steel you need to cut that off, there is no retaining of that piece cut it flush to the webbing of the mount area just like it is done in the picture...on the very bottom of the transmission there is a molded guide which is added support for the transmission I had shaved these off prior this VL Special project it is very possible a guy doesn't have to remove those guides, I don't have another 4-speed transmission here to check to see if it lines up with the tranny mount on the frame if it doesn't cut them off flush to the transmission case and hand file the area till flush...I used a sawsall with 18t cuts it quickly, a cutting wheel you will be there for ever...if the tranny guides line up with the tranny mount relief leave those on they are added support from torque...the next picture shows the rear where the old adjuster boss use to be you need to cut that off or the transmission will not sit down on the mount area...I still have a little more dressing of the area but gives ya the idea...once you have that done all you will need is 3/4" longer tranny mount studs and that mod is done...when changing the studs personally after years of useage I would drill those holes out and heli-coil those holes you will never have to worry about a stripped out hole from being tightened over the years it will save you much hassle down the road...when installing new studs in the case a good idea would be to seal the studs so they don't leak...I will be using a 2 part epoxy upon installation of the studs...silicone just don't seem to stand up to oils never had any luck personally I quit using the shit all together..also be very careful that you don't get to long of studs that protrude the interior of the case to far nice way to blow your case out if a bearing fails...take your OEM studs out and make the same length on the studs to the case side and get the fine threaded end 3/4" longer...don't use course out there you won't get proper poundage of torque on course threads or the holding power...I hope these tips help ya guys I am happy to share my ideas on these VL projects anytime...later Chaz

[rockabillyjay]

Well, shit...that about covers it!...the only thing I'll add is I had to notch a bit out of the seat tube to get the trans all the way forward to get the belt on....and I didn't change my trans studs...and I had to use an offset sprocket to line up the final drive...

[Flatironmike]

Nice work Chaz. Interesting use of pike nuts, too.

MC

[flattracklarry]

larry- skip the trans plate. you dont need it. trans bolts right in with some shaving of the frame. i scooted my whole motor over to the left 1/4 of an inch. welded up all the engine mount holes added the plate to to engine mount then start tweaking out on it. after you do all the modifications make sure your frame is straight. mine was bent to begin with.

max- thank you for the help. larry

[flattracklarry]

Alright got the pics uploaded, first thing to do is on the right rear of the tranny mount area on the frame there is an old adjuster bracket that is forged steel you need to cut that off, there is no retaining of that piece cut it flush to the webbing of the mount area just like it is done in the picture...on the very bottom of the transmission there is a molded guide which is added support for the transmission I had shaved these off prior this VL Special project it is very possible a guy doesn't have to remove those guides, I don't have another 4-speed transmission here to check to see if it lines up with the tranny mount on the frame if it doesn't cut them off flush to the transmission case and hand file the area till flush...I used a sawsall with 18t cuts it quickly, a cutting wheel you will be there for ever...if the tranny guides line up with the tranny mount relief leave those on they are added support from torque...the next picture shows the rear where the old adjuster boss use to be you need to cut that off or the transmission will not sit down on the mount area...I still have a little more dressing of the area but gives ya the idea...once you have that done all you will need is 3/4" longer tranny mount studs and that mod is done...when changing the studs personally after years of useage I would drill those holes out and heli-coil those holes you will never have to worry about a stripped out hole from being tightened over the years it will save you much hassle down the road...when installing new studs in the case a good idea would be to seal the studs so they don't leak...I will be using a 2 part epoxy upon installation of the studs...silicone just don't seem to stand up to oils never had any luck personally I quit using the shit all together..also be very careful that you don't get to long of studs that protrude the interior of the case to far nice way to blow your case out if a bearing fails...take your OEM studs out and make the same length on the studs to the case side and get the fine threaded end 3/4" longer...don't use course out there you won't get proper poundage of torque on course threads or the holding power...I hope these tips help ya guys I am happy to share my ideas on these VL projects anytime...later Chaz

Chaz -- Thank you for posting the pics and taking the time to explain it. Nice work.

[flattracklarry]

Well, shit...that about covers it!...the only thing I'll add is I had to notch a bit out of the seat tube to get the trans all the way forward to get the belt on....and I didn't change my trans studs...and I had to use an offset sprocket to line up the final drive...

rockabillyjay -- thank you for the help. can you tell me who sells offset sprockets?

[Chopper Chaz]

Chaz -- Thank you for posting the pics and taking the time to explain it. Nice work.Just glad I could help...Rockabillyjay hit the nail on the head with the seat post...personally I can't see you running a set of tins without majorly re-constructing the lower seat post area...you will need to get your tranny as far as you can forward for tins, as far as the offset sprocket surf egay for one that is what I did they are out there...most catalog suppliers will have them also but to the tune of a HONDO bux and change...no hurry surf ebay...later Chaz

[gringo]

Just glad I could help...

that shit needs to go in tech

very cool

[choppercopper1]

Chaz
Thanks for the info. Will be sure to keep this thread for when I get the tranny for my VL. Did you get the axel?

[Dragon]

yep, good one to archive for tech.

maybe this article will make it more complete & helpful for someone, since there are many areas besides tranny mounting to address.

by Irish Rich: http://www.bikernet.com/garage/PageViewer.asp?PageID=102





what's a rock star anyway ..

...I had asked a couple "Rock Stars" on this very forum that are running the same setup and they never replied back...maybe they have no idea cuz somebody else done it for them DOH!!!...what a bunch of help there huh??

.

[Chopper Chaz]

Chaz
Thanks for the info. Will be sure to keep this thread for when I get the tranny for my VL. Did you get the axel?Jason yup axle showed up I will get it threaded for ya and out Saturday latest been up to my ears with work...look for it sometime after the 4th...have a good one, I gotta build that is scheduled to leave the 6th so I don't get no holiday this year...I will slip a PBR in there when I get a chance :)

[choppercopper1]

Thanks Chaz and take your time with it. Just wanted to know if the USPS got it there ok. Have a good Holiday!

[flattracklarry]

Just glad I could help...Rockabillyjay hit the nail on the head with the seat post...personally I can't see you running a set of tins without majorly re-constructing the lower seat post area...you will need to get your tranny as far as you can forward for tins, as far as the offset sprocket surf egay for one that is what I did they are out there...most catalog suppliers will have them also but to the tune of a HONDO bux and change...no hurry surf ebay...later Chaz

Thanks again.

[rockabillyjay]

..I think I got my ofset sprocket through custom chrome...who the fuck is a rockstar?

[flattracklarry]

Are you running a chain or 1.5 in. belt in that Imperial primary on your VL? What type of inner? Just wondering. If a belt, is it the one with two extra teeth? I measure 13.5 in. center-to-center from motor sprocket shaft to trans mainshaft with the trans all the way forward, 0.75 in. longer than my belt-primary shovel. Did you notch the seat tube to move the trans forward? Also, I see that the motor must move left 1/4 in. as you said to line up the primary sprockets. Looks like I need to extend the motor mounts. There was also mention of an offset sprocket for the final drive? Trans or rear wheel? Who sells them? Thank you.

[nocal4q]

hey - tin inner primary. 1.5 bulls-eye belt. i notched the ratchet lid on my trans to get it foward more. i moved the motor over to line everything up....i didnt know about an off-set sprocket but everything on mine lines up real straight. pm me if you got more questions,,,,,max

[Bones Legacy]

Larry. I kinda went the other way, I put a '47UL in a '57 straight leg frame, and used a '35 trans case. The problem I came across was that the front engine mounts are different. I had to make spacers and add them under the front of the engine so it would set level. Does yours tilt forward when installed in the VL frame?
your tranny will tilt forward

[brasspan]

I'm putting a pan motor and 4-speed in a VL frame and am wondering how to set up the transmission mount. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. you need to get a set of studs for a 45, or locating studs from vtwin. use stock if you can. hold them down just enough so that 7/16 fine flange nuts cover threads. take your time,clean everything. hope this helps. can't type for shit.

[brasspan]

you might have to flat file slots .010 right and left on outside

[flattracklarry]

hey - tin inner primary. 1.5 bulls-eye belt. i notched the ratchet lid on my trans to get it foward more. i moved the motor over to line everything up....i didnt know about an off-set sprocket but everything on mine lines up real straight. pm me if you got more questions,,,,,max

thanks, max. i'll probably take you up on that.

[flattracklarry]

PM'd you, max.
larry