A Clarification of the "Manifesto"

[Charles]

I'm sure this will get closed or deleted (typical JJ mod m.o. when someone dares question them), but I just wanted to be clear on what I can and can't talk about here. There was a thread started by a member asking multiple questions about his late model Sportster. One of those questions happened to be in regards to tuning his EFI system (among other questions that dealt with styling of his bike..hard tailing, etc, etc). The thread was closed down as it didn't fit within JJ standards. Here's the Manifesto:

"from here on out we are going to dedicate The Jockey Journal to traditionally influenced British, Euro, and American bikes only. While we will let a few Jap based threads roll every now and then, we are no longer going to host the majority of them.

The decision was a hard one... I think we all realize that there is some great Jap based threads out there. However, The Jockey Journal needs more focus and less traffic at this stage in its life and we are hoping that narrowing the topics down does that for us. This decision in no way means that we (as a group) think you are lesser of a man if you are into the Jap scene... It's just not where we want to be right now."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see nothing about EFI. An EFI bike can be traditionally influenced (I know mine is), so it fits in, yes? If not, can we alter the Manifesto to reflect "Non-EFI, traditionally influenced European, Brit and American bikes"??

And, if that is the case, why close down a thread that deals with other aspects aside from fueling. Why not a simple "No EFI talk" and let it move on?

[Charles]

Overall, it's a serious question, so a simple answer would suffice.

If no EFI, then alter the manifesto and other people won't get confused..or the occasional EFI topic can come up and be addressed like any other topic dealing with traditionally inspired Euro, Brit and Amer bikes.

[kwiksilver]

It was the argument that was blowing up the thread.

[lilbill]

personally, i don't see anything "traditional" about anything harley built after the shovelhead and even fxr's imho are borderline. evos and twinkys make decent power and don't leak oil and rear belt drives have their followers but they are about as "traditional" as efi or billit trees.
if this place wants any street cred for embracing "old school traditional" motorcycles then it needs to establish a cut off date like the hamb. i vote for 1984 ;)

[jscoma47]

I agree with lilbill. As far as traditional there is definitely a cutoff.. but that seems to differ from person to person. Evo, no way a bike with any evo can be traditional... its in the name... evolution. Not knocking anyone on what the own or ride or like for that matter. It is my opinion and we all know what is said about opinions...

[CaptainChaos]

if this place wants any street cred for embracing "old school traditional" motorcycles then it needs to establish a cut off date like the hamb. i vote for 1984 ;)

Amen to that.

I mean, I too have a new bike, with efi and shit, but this is the only time you'll see me talking about it here. I talk about it in another forum which is especially devoted to that bike.

There's enough forums to go around, just pick one that likes your bike. I'm sure there's more than one i-want-my-new-bike-to-look-bobberish. This is not it.

[DennisB.]

personally, i don't see anything "traditional" about anything harley built after the shovelhead and even fxr's imho are borderline. evos and twinkys make decent power and don't leak oil and rear belt drives have their followers but they are about as "traditional" as efi or billit trees.
if this place wants any street cred for embracing "old school traditional" motorcycles then it needs to establish a cut off date like the hamb. i vote for 1984 ;)

It's not our house so it's not our rules that matter, but a cutoff date wouldn't be a bad idea. There are other places to play, some better for tech on newer stuff but this is the best the best for the far out and the old. The wealth of ancient knowledge here could fill a boat or an "ark" if you will.

[hatch]

I'll go with 1969 as the end of cool stuff.

[not45blesk]

^^^
Second that!!!

just my view too:cool:

[Chuckamatic]

Cut off dates, just like stupid zero tolerance rules in schools (that's why little kids get suspended for toy guns), are for people with no judgement or common sense. I think most of us have both.

Tell you what, if your bike came with a computer, fuel injection, and a payment book, COMMON SENSE will tell you it might not fit here.

What is a bloke anyway?

[Dragon]

Overall, it's a serious question, so a simple answer would suffice.

If no EFI, then alter the manifesto and other people won't get confused..or the occasional EFI topic can come up and be addressed like any other topic dealing with traditionally inspired Euro, Brit and Amer bikes.

Did you even read my statements posted upon closing each of those threads ?

And the "manifesto" will be altered, also re the ever-increasing problem of members and vendors soliciting sales on the board, but the simple fact is that Sticky posts are roundly ignored.

Just look how often a new member makes an indignant post about why he cant post in Classifieds, when that is answered in the TITLE of a Sticky thread there.



For a refresher (re the last 2 threads mentioned) -



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Moderator edit

This is yet another case of a bike that is too new/too stock and doesnt fit in here. Lengthy tech threads about fuel injection and on-bike computer diagnostics is far from the tradional & vintage focus this board is here for.



so while people like to piss on the newer bikes, the new bikes can be a gateway into the older rides.

But the JJ is not a gateway to ride thru on these new bikes. Fine if (as many here do) you also have a new bike or bagger or jap bike, but there are plenty of modern boards to post on to get tech help on them.

We want posts about your vintage bike or traditional custom.

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i agree that this place has a lot of people who are helpful and hand out a lot of useful information, but the builds and the bikes ive been seeing lately aren't the same as back in 05, 06, or 07.

sorry for trying to keep a traditional bike board traditional. i'll go back to not posting now.


And I agree.

We have been selectively removing board posts about '0-something Nighttrains and most anything that new or stock from Classifieds, as well there is a thread going on the Admin/moderators' board about becoming more selectively-traditional/vintage focused. This is the desire of "the board", not just my choice.

Personally I'd draw the line at 1984, but there are just to many early evos here built otherwise as traditional customs.



Sure, there are many members who are here for their vintage & custom Triumphs. Pans, Shovels but who also have a twinkie in the garage. That's fine, but we dont need lengthy ongoing threads about electronic fuel injection diagnosis and computer readouts.

Everyone who's been here for anytime wants to compare this to Ryan's HAMB, well do they discuss V10 Chrysler diagnostics there ?

So with that, there are plenty of boards to troubleshoot diagnose and repair these factory new-millenium setups, but it dont need to be diluting our classic/vintage focus here.


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I noticed in your quoting of Ryan's policy, you left out his very next line -



This decision in no way means that we (as a group) think you are lesser of a man if you are into the Jap scene... It's just not where we want to be right now.


We may or may not get even more focused in the future. Time will tell...



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Also, this isnt going to be a general-discussion thread. Posts made simply to make & pile-on with drama about board policies and decisions will be removed.

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[Charles]

Cut off dates, just like stupid zero tolerance rules in schools (that's why little kids get suspended for toy guns), are for people with no judgement or common sense. I think most of us have both.

Tell you what, if your bike came with a computer, fuel injection, and a payment book, COMMON SENSE will tell you it might not fit here.

I guess I see this board as a board that embraces traditional styling, individual fabrication, and creativity. To me, that has nothing to do with a carb or ECU. And yes, I do see what most posts are about, which is why I don't really post anything about my bike. My only gripe was the fact that the guy's thread wasn't only about EFI, it was also about wanting to get a more traditionally influenced bike...that happened to be a newer bike. However, it was closed, for what seemed to be, due to the fact that the guy had an EFI bike.

Did you even read my statements posted upon closing each of those threads ?

Yes, I did. However, you posts did not answer my questions. Your responses were what you thought, not what the policy on the board states.


And the "manifesto" will be altered, also re the ever-increasing problem of members and vendors soliciting sales on the board, but the simple fact is that Sticky posts are roundly ignored.

Problem solved.


Just look how often a new member makes an indignant post about why he cant post in Classifieds, when that is answered in the TITLE of a Sticky thread there.

Not sure what this has to do with my questions.



I noticed in your quoting of Ryan's policy, you left out his very next line -


This decision in no way means that we (as a group) think you are lesser of a man if you are into the Jap scene... It's just not where we want to be right now.
We may or may not get even more focused in the future. Time will tell...

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything I've asked. As it stands, the policy does NOT mention EFI. It says "Traditionally INFLUENCED", not a "Traditional" bike. You took it upon yourself to create a rule saying no EFI. If the admins choose to alter the policy, so be it.


Also, this isnt going to be a general-discussion thread. Posts made simply to make & pile-on with drama about board policies and decisions will be removed.

Since when does drama = clarification?

[Scorcher]

There are somethings that would seem pretty straightforward. The "Manifesto" was created to be a guideline for the direction of the board. There is of course the few that will push the boundries of what traditional is since there is really no set standards to define it. Generally the norm will decided and things run smooth.

EFI is a no brainer if youve been a part of this for any amount of time.

A traditionally styled bike with an Evo based motor is generally accepted here if drama doesnt surround it.


-Jason