It's time for a Japper Journal

[Neo Dutch]

Logged in earlier and the entire front page is full of posts about UJM's. I will admit that some are neat, some are downright dangerous, but if it ain't within the ethos of the Jockey Journal, then it shouldn't be here.

Many long time members are getting put offside by 'noobs' logging on with their latest CL find and then proceed to rack up massive post count with pointless leg humpin', praise for mediocrity and straight up stupid questions.

Just as the HAMB, spawned the JJ, it's time for things to evolve once again. There is no doubt that time has come for those of us who like and ride bikes from the land of the rising sun (I have a CB750 chopper project on the go, so I'm not being elitist here, just practical.) have a forum, in a format that we like, to post and yak about their bikes.

I truly believe that if something isn't done soon, the few long time JJ'ers that still have input here, will bail out and the JJ will be lost to the madding crowd. :mad:

[AlleySurfer]

I second that..... I too own a honda, infact thats my only bike and I get tired of seeing "cafe" post and "what to do with my japper" threads. I guess I dont have much say in this because Im a new member as well.

[Guy]

Logged in earlier and the entire front page is full of posts about UJM's. I will admit that some are neat, some are downright dangerous, but if it ain't within the ethos of the Jockey Journal, then it shouldn't be here.

Many long time members are getting put offside by 'noobs' logging on with their latest CL find and then proceed to rack up massive post count with pointless leg humpin', praise for mediocrity and straight up stupid questions.

Just as the HAMB, spawned the JJ, it's time for things to evolve once again. There is no doubt that time has come for those of us who like and ride bikes from the land of the rising sun (I have a CB750 chopper project on the go, so I'm not being elitist here, just practical.) have a forum, in a format that we like, to post and yak about their bikes.

I truly believe that if something isn't done soon, the few long time JJ'ers that still have input here, will bail out and the JJ will be lost to the madding crowd. :mad:

Yeah, well, said my piece on this ... suffice to say I totally agree.

[piston8]

Thanks for saying that, and its definently not beating the dead horse. Its been gradual, but the past couple of weeks "noobs" have exploded on here. I have ZERO problem with that, the more the merrier, but every other post is either an XS650, or "I dont have a pre-unit manual, can somebody tell me how to wire this thing?" Its gotten ridiculous, and while Im not trying to be elitest either, its been a huge downer on the JJ. I find myself logging on less and less, and I too worry that we will lose many good contributors, who I cant even begin to count, and who have absolutely filled this board with knowledge. But I guess there isnt too much we can do except deal with it, or start another board. I have noticed so many guys who have recently joined, and have double the post count that I do, and Ive been coming on here for almost a year, and Ive been on the Jalopy Journal for about 3 years. As you scroll through their posts you see that damn near every last one is just comments on every other dudes chawp-bawb, "Awesome bike!". While its nice to get feedback, or questions, or general comments, not every single guy needs to tell him that they think his bike is cool. Why do these crap-job bike threads stay at the top? Why do they turn into 4,5,6 page long ordeals? They contribute absolutely nothing, and just make it harder for those members who do contribute, actually know what they are talking about, or are here because they have a PASSION and LOVE for REAL motorcycles. Not a hacked up piece of shit.
"Do or do not, there is no try."-Tha Nutz

Blake

[Neo Dutch]

For fucks sake.

Please...step away from the Computer.

Your profile says you are a 'TIG welder'. How about adding something to the community instead of your usual half a line of leg humpin'. There are masses of shithouse welds posted on here, and yet you remain silent. Why don't ya jump in and help a fellow out?

Do you have a bike that you can ride?

[sLowrider]

Dutch. You get my vote.

[Curb Mutt]

Suggestion:

Same board, different Division... Like the Jock Shops, Classifieds etc... - Like divide the board into CLASSICS and OTHERWISE, er' JAPPER JOURNAL, whatever - Everybody can still post - administration can move posts if deemed necessary (borderline material like true Cafe's - 750 sohc chops - XS650's) - it won't be in anyones 'face' anymore unless you go looking for it - and it won't be throwing sand in everybodys vagina anymore....

The UJM posts personally doesn't bother me as much as reading the keyboard bashing about it... even if they don't fit the 'core' of the JJ board - It's probably not going to stop - I admire the moxie of someone who is at least attempting to do something with their own hands - but perhaps they need to be 'shuffled' over into a different column of the board so we can all go back to business...

[GrimeyGrim]

Your profile says you are a 'TIG welder'. How about adding something to the community instead of your usual half a line of leg humpin'. There are masses of shithouse welds posted on here, and yet you remain silent. Why don't ya jump in and help a fellow out?

Do you have a bike that you can ride?

You can read. Good on ya,mate ;) When's the last time you say a post asking how someones welds are? I'm not giving out advice that isn't asked for. I do TIG,yes. I'd Like to think I'm pretty fucking good. That said I've only been doing for a few years. There's plenty of other others on here who can do the job better.

I've been lurking through this place since Ryan made the damn thing. But...I haven't had a bike,so i didn't want to muck up the place. Now i'm in the position in life that can facilitate building a bike and working on the soul. I'm not building some fucking chopperbobbercaferatrod. I'm building a bike the way i like,and trying to undo a life of drugs and violence. Don't call my "usefullness" into question,and Don't question passion for this.


As for the leg humping, I like what i see, i say it. Fuck off.

[=JL=]

Hey Dutch, just want to register my support before the thread is closed.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the proliferation of kids with tedious bikes, I don't think anyone would deny that the character of the board has changed radically this year.
The only question that remains for me is whether or not the administrators like the direction it's heading. If they have no problem with it, then it's inevitable that the likes of you and I will drift away.

[bigassbike]

when i was in vegas for a year, dr jett and me became friends and rode. i was working at denvers living in a hotel and he was riding his blue shovel. he showed me to the jj, it was something he enjoyed...that and building a few bikes true to the so cal club style of the 60's, noting the history of the same, and studying old s&s carbs a bit.
i agree with this thread, have said so before, and will again. i like all bikes, and at first i enjoyed seeing the occasional xs650 or cafe'd 500 with alloy gas tanks or whatever...it was more of a rarity. but its become the norm, and that normalcy has opened the door to modern vulcan bobbers, and chopped intruders, and no doubt will soon bring in the hyosung scooters i see the dui guys driving.
somehow it just crossed a line as one thing led to another. and the door is wide open for the influx that will destroy the nature of this place, because the occasional 650, cant be seperated from a kawasaki vulcan, if theres a hundred other jap bike threads between the two bridging the logical extension gap.
now sometimes i wonder where im at. evidently dr. jett didnt recognize the place the last time he stopped in either.

[Dr. Benway]

hey, we all gotta learn somewhere, but this is getting out of hand, IMO.


This is the core of my issue with the n00b influx.

There doesn't seem to be a desire to learn; it's "I hafsta have a chopperbobber to be cool but I don't know shit about bikes or wiring or motors, please find me a diagram".

This whole bike modification thing is supposed to grow out of the love of bikes and some creativity...and I see a depressing lack of BOTH.

Remember, bikes are about RIDING. Not hacking them into some shitbox like you saw on Teh Intarwebz before you even have your frigging learner's permit.

[Richie]

No one says you have to read the foolishness.
All these newbie Title/XS/Bobber/cool helmet/footwear/whatever threads don't click themselves.

[Dr. Benway]

No one says you have to read the foolishness.


Yeah. You could also just eat around the dead bug in your food.

The point is that this crap:
1. Displaces the good stuff
2. Has steadily driven off good contributors.

So...it becomes more poop than good stuff. Get it now?

[Cris]

+1 for at the very least making it its own category, but I wouldn't shed a tear if the Nipponese bikes had to go away all together.

Someone (Dragon? Wes?) Should write a mission statement or manifesto for this place once and for all.

Cris

[nigel]

This thread makes a great point, I like others question how to address the "problem" (if you think it is one) appropriately. I have gone on a few of the seemingly endless XS and other Zip threads. Some of those guys are talented and knowledgable but how many are needed, how much crossover is there for the rest of us? I am pretty new here so I don't think I can say anything one way or the other. I guess I am just saying I hope the people that have been SO helpful to me stick around.

[Richie]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a21/rbarstis15/f9cc829ae0b529241778cbc6134fbbcc.jpg

[haring]

you arent any different than the affliction shirt wearing bro-dude with the fake tan revving the engine on your Ford Lightining with 24 inch rims in the taco bell drive through, looking for attention because you have something someone else doesnt.


Um, yes he IS different than your description above ...

which you would know if you spent more time here.

No one that's been here would question Dr. Benway's contributions, and all this bickering makes a man look for more peaceful endeavors, like, um, working on a motorcycle in one's garage.

What is up with new guys that jump on with tons of attitude and a condescending attitude towards the old timers? Several times I've read these chest-beating arguments -- from guys who claim to hate chest-beating arguments. Kettle ... black. I don't get it.



.

[littlebike]

Hey Dutch, just want to register my support before the thread is closed.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the proliferation of kids with tedious bikes, I don't think anyone would deny that the character of the board has changed radically this year.
The only question that remains for me is whether or not the administrators like the direction it's heading. If they have no problem with it, then it's inevitable that the likes of you and I will drift away.Being a man of few words, I will use this quote to show my support to what I have also noticed happening on this site.

[Southside76]

Um, yes he IS different than your description above ...

which you would know if you spent more time here.

No one that's been here would question Dr. Benway's contributions, and all this bickering makes a man look for more peaceful endeavors, like, um, working on a motorcycle in one's garage.

What is up with new guys that jump on with tons of attitude and a condescending attitude towards the old timers? Several times I've read these chest-beating arguments -- from guys who claim to hate chest-beating arguments. Kettle ... black. I don't get it.



.
i had a simple question and was met with some elitist garbage out of that guy. what ever makes him feel better i guess.

[WhiteFox]

Really, how much work is it to add another section to the forum? It would make searching a hell of a lot easier since it'd be divided by category. I might not have to visit 2 sites either, I'd rather have it all in one, and the JJ is where I'd like to see it.

[bigassbike]

Wolverines!!!
i get it now. do you?

[nigel]

and he had a good reason for acting like a jerkoff in the first place? i asked a simple question he could have ignored it and the thread would have disappeared. i didnt come here flooding this board with stupid questions or even expecting an answer, thought i would give it a shot and maybe someone who was in my position at one time might be willing to help.

"But Daddy he hit me first" Your nose is just bent out of shape because Doc called you out on your thread (Noob incoming!) like I said if you don't like the way you are being treated move on.

[beanhead78]

Wolverines!!!
i get it now. do you?
not to interrupt all the bickering but that was one of favorite movies as a kid. now back to the "days of our lives" or "as the journal turns"

[Hammered]

IM far from being a noobie to bikes and fabrication, but I will say that almost every forum I go to these days bitches about nothing else. I dont think its the "noobies" persay as much as to the unwillingness to adjust to the new influx of people. Im not sure who owns and operates this forum, but may I suggest? A subforum for classics, Brits, American, Asian and Rat. I love some of the old Rat bikes. Maybe a "Hi Im a Fucking Newbie" sub and/or a "WTF Im I doing" Sub? Hell Id love to clear the clutter to get to what Im looking and would be willing to add what I can from what I know (welder and fabricator for 25 years) I like this place even if ya have to suffer through someone with irritated bowel syndrome from time to time.

[Bugles]

I dont think its the "noobies" persay as much as to the unwillingness to adjust to the new influx of people.

There is unwillingness, but I think you're on the wrong side of the argument. We don't have to adapt to the influx of people, the influx should adapt to what this board's about. Or go away.

[Hammered]

There is unwillingness, but I think you're on the wrong side of the argument. We don't have to adapt to the influx of people, the influx should adapt to what this board's about. Or go away.

I was referring more to the board. It being an open forum, its hard not to have this kind of problem rear up. Without making this a application only forum or a pay per view kinda deal, I can only see adding to the sub forums. Which was my point to adapting to the influx new people.


Add-On: I just wanted to look around before making this comment as well, I didnt see anything like a mission statement. Something that limits whats posted. Maybe if sub forums more to ones some have mentioned, a set of posting rules could be drawn up by the older members.

[62rambler]

Heres my $.02. I think the JJ would benefit greatly if it was "updated" like the HAMB was. The JJ needs a separate intro thread. And a prefix at the thread titles. Like the HAMB has recently done. So if you dont want to look at "XS650" <xs650> then you dont have to. I think if you start to separate bikes pretty soon you will have a forum for panheads only, nuckleheads only,bsa only. and so on.. And would soon be ridiculous. ok lock this thread now...lol</xs650>

[concrete guy]

It seems in the short time I have been here that the board HAS changed quite a bit. I find myself breezing over a lot of bullshit threads that were never here before. You hardly ever see any good tech threads anymore or kickass bike builds. Seems like the guys that were flooding this forumn with good shit have hit the road.

[skidlid]

Holy shit we are gonna be in the shit when Dragon turns on his computer !!!!

Ride Long & Safe Bros

[vorhese]

I fully support this. I love Jap bikes, own a few, but this isn't the place. Let's get back on track.

[Oilburner]

I get the point of all this from both sides, but if the JJ came from the HAMB, go look at the HAMB board... I don't see an influx of new people with primered honda civics and acuras trying to fit the HAMB mold, it's clear they are not what the board is about!!!!!!!!!!!!! A BOLD mission statement that can't be missed when you first hit the home page would be great, and a sub category for stuff that doesn't fit in the traditional envelope would be a great help, but a lot of people just don't understand what the "traditional" thing is which is why you see bastardized XS's and lightly modified vulcan "bobbers" mixed in. Which is why the bold mission statement is needed. I don't have to weed through so much crap on the HAMB to know what's coming when I open a thread, it shouldn't be that much different here. If someone gets offended buy getting bashed buy one of the oldtimers on here for coming on new and asking something then, well, you must not fit what the Jockey Journal is about. Adjust or find another site..................... (notice how many periods I used there?)

[ea_hatch]

i have also noticed a big change in this forum...before i signed up i was a lurker for a while.. and i have looked at a lot of old threads from previous years and noticed that there were hardly any bullshit threads. it does get worse every day though, but more than likely this is a fad that will blow over with time (hopefully not too long) and it will be back to the people that are really here for the motorcycles and not just a pile of shit that they think is gonna make them look cool, even when they dont ride them

i know i know..i have an xs650 and i am a noob..but dont bash me too hard cause i only have 1 build thread that i have updated and i DO NOT create all kinds of threads for retarded questions that i could easily find the answer to with 5 mins of research

[62rambler]

I would rather look at a hardtailed modified Jap bike than a "Hey i just bought a '95 sportster and took the fenders off. You like my bobber i just built?" My point is were do you draw the line?

[Irish Rich]

If I open up a thread, and it pertains to a Jap bike, I close the thread, and I don't make any comments good or bad about the content.

But, I'll tell you, if I never see another Jap bike in any shape or form on the JJ again, it wouldn't break my heart in the least. If I never see another over-stretched butchered Jap bike with an ammo can filling the frame gap on here, that would be fine with me.

Tough shit if you don't like my opinion.

[DrDano]

Is it fucking Tech Week yet? Does anyone even remember when the last one was?

[Irish Rich]

I also need to say that the Denvers thread is the exception to my statement above. Those bikes are on an entirely different plain of execution and craftsmanship......

[Grohidighast]

I don't think its even the jap bikes that are doing it. Just take the denver's thread for example. One of the best here. I think the real problem is people being to lazy to find out the answer to their problem the real way, so they ask stupid unnecessary questions on here. And the "is it cool" threads are the stupidest crap on here. I think what this place needs is a solid definition of what fits and what doesn't fit on the board. A denvers CB or KZ fits. A Stock kz with a flat black paintjob and a slightly modified seat that you bought on craigslist for $200 bucks does not.

[Barrett]

I am going with the modified version of JJ to make it work. Its changed quite a bit in the short time I've been here.

Uh, a post about "What is a magneto?" or "How do I set points?"

I am not anti jap bikes by no means I got a couple of XS650's and a CB750 or two. But, there is always a but, each have thier own websites. There is no generator shovel, or 70's Easyrider Magazine style panhead chopper site, well, this was it.

Give them a section, I know I will still check it out, and offer help, tech info or links if I can. I do see guys on here who have never kick started a sportster...that talk a load of shit.

I just don't want to loose valuable links for identifying old chopper frames or stuff I am ignorant or unlearned about, you know, like: pre-unit stuff, Amen Buck frames, or Invader style rims. All that cool crap from Jammers mags and stuff sold from the backs of olf Easyrider mags. Gider rigid....well, you know, that's why you're here.

I also dig old unmolested stuff too.

[ea_hatch]

another thing i have noticed is that when someone makes a thread with a retarded question or a hideous bike...people still seem to answer their question or say something good about their bike...i know this will sound kinda shitty but you guys should really just bash them...on some other forums i am on you dont see this type of thing happening because if a noob comes in and starts some stupid threads they get flamed hard and they never post again...or they learn not to be dumb

[aj650]

Logged in earlier and the entire front page is full of posts about UJM's. I will admit that some are neat, some are downright dangerous, but if it ain't within the ethos of the Jockey Journal, then it shouldn't be here.

Many long time members are getting put offside by 'noobs' logging on with their latest CL find and then proceed to rack up massive post count with pointless leg humpin', praise for mediocrity and straight up stupid questions.

Just as the HAMB, spawned the JJ, it's time for things to evolve once again. There is no doubt that time has come for those of us who like and ride bikes from the land of the rising sun (I have a CB750 chopper project on the go, so I'm not being elitist here, just practical.) have a forum, in a format that we like, to post and yak about their bikes.

I truly believe that if something isn't done soon, the few long time JJ'ers that still have input here, will bail out and the JJ will be lost to the madding crowd. :mad:

Very well put. I've seen what the JJ used to be, and what it's evolving into.

It's a shame that most of these "save the JJ" threads just get locked and ignored.

[Shamrox]

5 pages of wasted internet space on this topic. People complain a lot about what they hate to see on here. How about some examples of the "good" threads, the ones people deem acceptable and desired here on the JJ, and maybe post them as sticky for others to emulate? I do agree this place has swung it's focus over the years since I've joined. I don't mind seeing Jap, Cafe, Bobs, boobs :) or anything HD. If it's cool, rock on. If not, i pass it by.

[Albert]

How about some examples of the "good" threads, the ones people deem acceptable and desired here on the JJ, and maybe post them as sticky for others to emulate?

I'm not much of an internet kinda guy...but, who remembers FUCK! Choppers and Punk Rock pre-privatisation.

[HI!]

Call the WAAAAHHHHHHHmbulance. Its a bike site and dont make it the new format. I'm not an elitist either ,I just dont like censorship, crying,people,small dogs, old people,bicyclists............

[Dr. Benway]

i asked a simple question about a motorcycle.

Fair enough...but you need to understand this isn't about you specifically. You were the straw that broke the camel's back, that's all.

There is nothing wrong with n00bs, jap bikes, or wiring diagram requests. But, in case you didn't notice, there has been a tidal wave of resentment building on the board in general, and today the wave just crashed.

[Gazza]

Call the WAAAAHHHHHHHmbulance. Its a bike site and dont make it the new format. I'm not an elitist either ,I just dont like censorship, crying,people,small dogs, old people,bicyclists............

Here's part of the problem... it's not "just a bike site"... there was a time that it was a special site... where I felt compelled to lurk and rarely ever open my mouth, because I knew I was in the house of some very smart people... at that time I felt my place was just to listen and learn as much as I could.

Gazza

[Gazachop]

the jj is about traditional bikes, traditonal bike building and traditonal bike culture ... if you don't get it ... you shouldn't stay here ... you certainly shouldn't be telling the guys who built this forum what to do ...

... they now call it "old school" ... what's that? It's the only way to do it (here) new school go somewhere else ...

[Southside76]

Fair enough...but you need to understand this isn't about you specifically. You were the straw that broke the camel's back, that's all.

There is nothing wrong with n00bs, jap bikes, or wiring diagram requests. But, in case you didn't notice, there has been a tidal wave of resentment building on the board in general, and today the wave just crashed.
i understand that completely, ive kind of noticed some resentment and ive noticed other noobish questions being answered with no problem. i didnt mean to add fuel to the fire, flame away on me all you want for being a noob, just dont assume that im an idiot :D

[NewYorkAndy]

metric choppers...

good for you guys who are into them. whatever gets you off.

i can appreciate them, but they honestly do nothing for me.

+1 with Rich. open the tread... jap bike, close the thread. it's like tastes in music I guess... it has to work for you.

[HI!]

If its not a bike site ,than WTF is it. News for you, Tradition bikes means what? Who's tradition. Yours. and the new format on the others site isnt as nice as this one.

[HI!]

And Gazza ,WTF with the quad cam site link? Its not a bike site:rolleyes:. Ive owned and ridden many makes, Some Models:D, of bikes. Jap bikes are cheap right now and If you dont ask questions youll never learn.

[=mike=]

If everyone who takes the time out to cry about how much the site is starting to suck because no one is contributing anything worthwhile , would take that time to instead post something worth while . . . I think you get the idea .

Complaining about the management and trying to force them to make changes that everyone themselves could make is a fucking copout . This site is what everyone makes of it and if you want it to be a certain thing , then shut the fuck up about it and help out . All complaining does is make you a complainer . Griping about how much it sucks and trying to get someone else to fix it for you makes you usless .

Like Rich said , if you don't like the thread , close it and move on . They will drop off and leave more room for all the amazing things that all the complainers are going to suddenly start posting that will resurect ths site to it's former glory .

Since the site is free , I'd say " put your money where your mouth is " doesn't really apply , but maybe try it a little and see what happens .

[Looney]

Know what gets me off? Two wheels, decent lines and decent workmanship. The brand has NOTHING to do with it IMO

Tired of the NOOBS...of which I'm one here....then make it a pay site to keep out the rifraf.....I'll pay.

Wonder why you got trouble finding threads that interest you? They're all under the same fucking heading....go figure!!

If it's such a prob...break it up into subgroups....simple on the surface.

I come here 'cause folks around here seem to be into fabrication and bikes...and was kinda referred here fom another board....a pay site btw.

The fucking whining though.....roll with it boys or you're gonna have alot more whining in your future....the only thing doesn't change is change itself.

I have huge respect for some of the skills I've seen here....and am amazed by the inginuity (sic?)...brand has nothing to do with it.

We're keeping our eyes open for a good sporty donor to work on.....would it be ok to post here about it? I hope they're not too popular by the time we find one....then I can bash those fucking xs's too....lol..

[Trent]

I have said my piece on this before (and, of course, it was moved and locked).

Separate sections of the board.. jap, euro, American...

The winds of change are blowing.

[bigassbike]

if you don't like the thread , close it and move on . They will drop off and leave more room for all the amazing things that all the complainers are going to suddenly start posting that will resurect ths site to it's former glory

so do you think that ignoring threads like this(see below), and me starting windshield threads about my 05 road king called "cant see the road!" will bring back a few of those old timers?
http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39690

[big steve-o]

OK, I've only been on this site for a year. I feel like the difference lateley isn't stupid questions, but the 500 guys who rush to defend someone when they get flamed for asking stupid questions. I read earlier in this thread about someone either learning to not take it personally, or never post again. If people were a little nervous to post dumb questions because they knew they would get their shit jumped, maybe you wouldn't see the same question twice within 2 pages, like you do now. I was on this site alot more when I started, cuz I was brand new to motorcycles. Now I spend alot more time in the garage or on a bike. But I agree about a mission statement. If someone actually put into writing that this site is only for Harley Davidson motorcycles built between say 1936 and 1978, then it would eliminate all those bullshit questions. Along with most of its members. It's a slippery slope. Cuz if vertical twin import bikes built in the 60s and 70s are out, there go the Triumph/BSA/Norton guys, right along with the jap bike guys. I'm exaggerating about the Harley thing, I'm just saying that if there has to be a "dress code" to be a member here, then maybe the "focus" has shifted in a different way than you think. I for one say that once you go over 40 degrees of rake, you're out.

[Nads]

There is unwillingness, but I think you're on the wrong side of the argument. We don't have to adapt to the influx of people, the influx should adapt to what this board's about. Or go away.
This makes sense.

[fivepointink]

damn. that was awesome. i need a cigarrette. and it might not hurt to do a little shufflin of the board. i love this place and i dont need a wiring diagram.

[=mike=]

"bigassbike" . . . short and long , no and yes .

Ignoring those threads would leave them to die and fall off the page sooner than later . Pointing out that it is " topic of the day " is usless and drags it back to the top for some other funster to make another pointless comment and bring it back one more time . The circle of life so to speak . That's the " no " part of why that wouldn't work .

The yes part is that eventually people who post regularly would start to see how it is changing and they would be more motivated to be involved . The people who left might at some point see that and decide to come back .

We're not talking about overnight here . Long term stuff , not a bandaid .

The part about the '05 windshield doesn't really make sense so I don't really see how that would help anything besides just being more off topic stuff for everyone to have to ignore .


"Southside76" , spend more time reading and understanding how the site works and how much real information you can find around here , and less time assuming and talking shit on people who have been around a long time and contributing on a fairly regular basis . You will do well for yourself here and ultimately we will all get a long like old buddies .

[Dragon]

So many folks in this thread point out features of the HAMB....

Let me say again, for several months now I have been personally appealling (to the point of nagging) Ryan for a separate sub-forum for japs and for events. The concert/run/neighborhood-drink-&-ride threads get pretty heavy in numbers too.

But has been pointed out in numerous threads on the Questions board (which is where policy discussions belong) he says NO. Again and again.

He also said we are going to get the 'prefixes', but I cant see how that would help at all like segregating threads, we already have a preview function when "mousing-over" the titles....

The front page will still be 85% covered in jabber-bopper and event threads.



but this is getting out of hand, IMO.

Mods need to shape up or the good of the board will evaporate as I'm sure most have noticed lately the from lack of posts by some.


And we were also told there is too much moderation. And that defining "traditional" for this place (i.e. mission statement) is too difficult.



Many here dont like me, more every day it seems, but all I have ever wanted was the best for this place and to help make it better. I got banned a year ago for strongly speaking up about how this place used to be and what it should be. And I do spend a lot of time 'behind the scenes' communicating with members and admins trying to help 'the greater good'.


So, I just dont know. It's Ryan's show, all we mods can do is turn up the lights and use the broom like he says to.


Thanks to all who are making the constructive comments, and who have communicated them to me in private. Hopefully things will improve.

[punkabilly1306]

so from what i've read thru 8 fucking pages is that you need to have a panhead, knucklehead, or some other variation of a HD "...head", in order to fit this forum? fuck that, i thought this was a place about bikes. ALL BIKES. Now granted there have been some pretty stupid threads lately but as stated the HAMB gets alot of stupid ones as well. The fad will pass, just look at the hamb now and notice the shift AWAY from flat black and red wheels!! if you dont like a thread then dont comment on it and let it dwindle back down so far back no one will find it ever again. I respect this place for all the knowledge it has to offer there are ALOT of guys on here willing to help and share what they know, but to say that one bike is better then another just because its HARLEY over a HONDA is bullshit.

[Justbob]

I have only been a member for a short time. Did lurk some before I joined, and mostly lurk now. I read this forum every day, but rarely post, not because I am skeered, but because usually I don't have anything constructive to post, and don't believe that i should clutter the board with posts like, wiring diagrams and ain't my bike cool. I have gotten lots of good information and ideas from some of the really imaginative and creative builders on here. When I first found the site, I could not believe the bikes that were highlighted on here. Now those bikes and the builders are few and far between, but I have learned to use my clicker constructively and not even look at 3/4 of the BS posts. I will still read this forum daily, and post seldom. I agree with the old timers here, just as in a club, you don't mess with the old guys, that's just asking for trouble. Until you get your chops, keep quiet and stay in the background.
Back to lurk mode.

[cornfed]

I can remember when this board started. If you had a jap bike & wanted to post it, you better make damned sure it was gonna impress someone. If it didnt, you probably never posted here again. I like all brands & have owned most brands, in fact I have an XS project & an HD project right now but I agree that its been a little off topic lately. No biggie for me, I just read the posts that Im interested in...

[chickashakid]

I'm building a bike the way i like,and trying to undo a life of drugs and violence. Don't call my "usefullness" into question,and Don't question passion for this.


As for the leg humping, I like what i see, i say it. Fuck off.[/quote]

this one's gonna get 'Closed' pretty quick. but i'm with the
Grimster. you don't like a thread, don't read it. who cares
if it's six pages-- you don't open it, just move on. like the man
says: Fuck Off.

[hotsos]

I think it is everyone's responsibility to contribute quality content to the forum, in the style the JJ is known for.

I personally have added a lot of bullshit to the forum at times, which I feel bad about, but I will try to stay on topic and make an effort to add to the forum in a positive way.


You don't go to a chinese restaurant and ask for a burger, or a taco stand and get anything but mexican food

[Gerry]

Well...I´ve joined this board pretty long time ago, been reading more than posting since than. I can remember when it was 2 pages of new postings to read in the mornings. Now it´s something about 6. Some uninteresting stuff, still some really great stuff. I guess this is just the way it is when boards get bigger and draw more and more attention. Sub-Boards (if this will be the way to go) should be named very carefull. Should be something like "Tech", "Bullshit-Talk", "Events" and so on. Nothing like "Panhead", "Knucklehead", "Jap". That would make way to complicated to check for interesting stuff.

And another thing would be...to think about what you post. Too much comments about stuff that wouldn´t need to be commented at all.

Quality - not Quantity!

Just my 2 Cents.

[Larry T]

I guess I'll throw my .0000000002 worth in here and then go do something constructive.

I've always thought building bikes (and hotrods) was about building the best you could. Since the 60's I've heard "Oh, I sure would like a ________ , but I just can't afford it. I called BS back then and I call it now. The people that REALLY want to build something neat will. The others that won't give up something else (smokes, drugs, bars, etc.)for their passion are just showing their priorities.

It doesn't have to do with brands of motorcycles. It has more to do with build styles. I just can't get into the "How cheap can I put a bike/hotrod together." Homemade and cobbled up aren't the same thing. And (to tie this into this thread) I see a lot more cobbled up stuff here than I did when the forum started.

That's why I spend a lot less time here than I have in the past.
Larry T

[Marco.Creep]

Im really putting my foot in my mouth here but does anyone notice that these type of threads get more attention and more post then the ones that appear on the front page. Wes (fouraces) spends a great deal of time writing tech articles, cool features, and other useful info and I dont even think anyone even notices their there.
Choppercopper1 posted up some of the most insane traditional customs from his fathers collection of photos and it got a measly 35 comments. Shit If I'm building a traditional chopper Id be going over those threads with a fine tooth comb. Instead of looking at an Roadstar bobber that doesn't interest me. Like my mother always said..."This to shall pass."
I just hope guys like Benway, FlatIronMike, Trent, and some others stick around till all thats flatblack and bobberish fades away.

[Gazza]

If its not a bike site ,than WTF is it.

Don't misquote me... I didn't say that.... the phrase had the word "just" which makes a world of difference.... if this was "just a bike site"... we'd be reading posts about the MP3 players in DiscoGlides malfunctioning and be viewing pictures of the latest HOG ice cream stand run.... the places you see those posts are "just bike sites".... my reasoning behind my statement is that JJ is about a particular style (not just any bike) and it's about understanding that style IMHO.

Gazza

[vernonvega]

Agreed wholeheartedly...but it's also about the attitude you bring with you to this place...Prior to joining I lurked for over 12 months, mainly to get a sense of how things worked but also to see if as well as learning from some awesome builders, I could contribute. I admit to (still) being in absolute fuckin awe of some of the people that post/used to post here, but also having a healthy respect for senior members who were inviting me into their cyberspace workshop/garage/bar...The extract below sums it up...Remember, our forum is like our living room. If you can't mind your manners, you'll be kicked in the nuts and shown the exit. There are many other motorcycle-related forums out there where goofy and off-topic shennanigans are tolerated. If that's your scene, go there.

[=JL=]

so from what i've read thru 8 fucking pages is that you need to have Brand X. fuck that, i thought this was a place about knitting machines. ALL KNITTING MACHINES. I respect this place for all the knowledge it has to offer there are ALOT of guys on here willing to help and share what they know, but to say that one knitting machine is better then another just because its Brand X over Brand Y is bullshit.

Sorry about mis-quoting you Punkabilly, I'm just trying to illustrate a point here about what I see as the major problem.
I don't own a knitting machine, therefore I don't join message boards to spout about which ones are the best.
You don't own a motorcycle - SO WHAT THE FUCK IS IT YOU WANT HERE?
(And I don't wanna hear about how you're here to learn - if you were you'd shut up and listen)

Generally I'm the opposite to some people on here. That is; meek and polite on the internet, and a complete cunt in person - but I feel like making an exception today.

[MIKE47]

I have said my piece on this before (and, of course, it was moved and locked).

Separate sections of the board.. jap, euro, American...

The winds of change are blowing.

If this solves an arguement I'm all for it. I'll look at all the sections 'cause I dig bikes of all makes as long as they are cool and not POSs. I have HD, Honda, and have had a Triumph. I ride the Honda most.

I signed up on here cause the guys here were cool to me no matter what I was building. And I continue to help others where I can, but I do agree that some new guys are lazy, as stated. I don't care for some of their posts either so I just don't read them. Blast them all you want. I take some flack here and there from some of you for my builds too. I think Japper stuff is popular because it's cheap and abundant and reliable and most of the guys on here who use them do contribute to the board and support the other makes and builds as well. There are also some really gay harley posts don't forget like the one where the guy took off his front fender and called it a custom bobber.
I don't think that all these changes are gonna help all that much 'cause there are just gonna be new guys with Harley/big twin projects that are gonna know nothing and sign up and still post the dumb ass questions like what is a mag? and look at my cool bagger/bobber, etc. At least MOST of the jap guys have some clue.
If it weren't for this place I wouldn't have met some of the coolest people or been taught some some downright awesome history, tech, or style. I don't think it would be fair to exclude others from intermingling because they ride rice or other. If that were the case I would never have met Dr.Benway, or Bugles, Or Walter, or Scraper, Billdozer,Todd,Tom,Richiepan,Magoo, Cruz, or the countless others I have become friends with over my time here. They have all helped me and I may have been able to help a couple of them. Lets get back to tech and fun. I had my internet fight last week anyway.

[piston8]

Cant we also have a different section for intros? Christ, every other post is "FNG". Thats my main qualm about this place getting mucked up
Blake

[Dragon]

I give up.

I have posted in numerous threads how I have repeatedly personally asked Ryan the forum owner about new sub-forums, and the answer is (again 2 days ago) an unequivocable NO.


So how about all of y'all who have to keep posting that as a solution (whether because you dont believe me, or you just want to see yourself post a question that has been answered more than the dead horse beaten), please just PM Ryan and ask him yourselves.


This dead-horse-syndrome, and the continued resurrection of the newb-poster/Benway drama (from another thread) is what gets these threads closed instead of being able to continue with constructive input.

[BORJES]

I don't think anyone would be to upset if Benway quit looking at anyones posts all together. I try to ignore the bastard but enough is enough.

I'm gonna take a kick in the nuts with this...

I think Benway keeps shit honest. His critiques are usually spot on and I also tend to think a lot of what he says goes over people's heads... sarcasm, sometimes doesn't come through very well on the inter-web. He also tends to point out people's stupidity, which is good, because other's tend to let it slide (e.g. - 20 posts on topics that have been covered a million times and all it takes is using the search function... but I forgot, it's the me, me, me, look at my posts now, me, me, me, computer generation).

Now... I go back to lurking.

[Dragon]

Trying again, kids.

The topic is JJ Content, not individual personality disorders.

[Southside76]

"Southside76" , spend more time reading and understanding how the site works and how much real information you can find around here , and less time assuming and talking shit on people who have been around a long time and contributing on a fairly regular basis . You will do well for yourself here and ultimately we will all get a long like old buddies .
yeah i didnt mean to piss anyone off, felt a little hostility and shot some back. i love all the bikes i see on here and love reading about them. hard to tell when someone is being an asshole or just being blunt over the internet sometimes.

[Shamrox]

I'm not much of an internet kinda guy...but, who remembers FUCK! Choppers and Punk Rock pre-privatisation.

FUCK! used to rule...Ah the "good ole days"

[pan5074]

This was a message board for "Traditional based bobbers and choppers" at one time,if I'm not mistaken.Be nice to get back to that.

[2_wheel_nation]

Ryan has already said that he wants this place to be the new backtalk. so that's all there is to it; the site will remain open to whatever as long as it's motorcycle related and not biatching about the moco, making fun of RUBs or having too much fun. it would be really nice if standards, like on the HAMB, were enforced here. but the guy who runs the forum wants it to stay the way it is, so deal with it or get lost.

[crazyman_stanley]

Flame fuck-o's who post stupid shit and it will end.

Example: Can someone give me step by step instructions on wiring my bike?

Response: NO you stupid FUCK! search for the info with the search function and figure it out on your own. If you cant then you dont fucking belong here so get the fuck out, oh and by the way your bike is a hideous POS.
Lock the thread

They'll either get the hint and be sure to only post acceptable posts or they'll fuck off.

[Tman]

Heres my $.02. I think the JJ would benefit greatly if it was "updated" like the HAMB was. The JJ needs a separate intro thread. And a prefix at the thread titles. Like the HAMB has recently done. So if you dont want to look at "XS650" <xs650> then you dont have to. I think if you start to separate bikes pretty soon you will have a forum for panheads only, nuckleheads only,bsa only. and so on.. And would soon be ridiculous. ok lock this thread now...lol</xs650>

You are telepathic...........stay tuned

[Dr. Benway]

Flame fuck-o's who post stupid shit and it will end.


Well...I thought I tried that...
But then it somehow turned into what an arrogant, elitist fucktard I am (seems some people had quite a bit of personal animus toward me, and I'm glad they could finally weep openly abut it).

It's OK. It's like any storm; after the shit is done flying, the short-timers & pudfuckers will be gone, the real guys will remain anchored like a barnacle.

[Dragon]

Yeah...

That guy aint been around long enough to be sent on a store run for lighters, much less to offer up advice on 'flaming'.

[crazyman_stanley]

I guarentee you that it works, reguardless of how long ive been on this site. Not trying to tell you how to run the place just tryin to help you solve a problem

[Dragon]

I guarentee you that it works, reguardless of how long ive been on this site.

Not trying to tell you how to run the place just tryin to help you solve a problem

Fine. Just dont practice what you preach.

Drama is not encouraged nor is it tolerated here. The topic is vintage motorcycles, not hyper-'bro' chest-thumping.

[BFJosh]

all comes down to its Ryans world we just live it when he wants to change it he will till then we have to adapt and make due with what we have if everyone wouldnt add there .02 to all the crappy posts they would disapear and that person would get the hint versus flaming him bringing that post back to the top ignoring just seems like it would benifit us all alittle more in my opinion

[=mike=]

^^^bingo ^^^

[62rambler]

You are telepathic...........stay tuned

Right on...Thanks Tman and Dragon... Smack Ryan around alittle lol

[motomotard]

just last night i was thinking about how a japjournal.com was needed. guess im a little late.

that may be extreme, subsections atleast. jap, brit, HD, ... whatever would really help.

everyday the front page is full of shit. ive done it before myself, but the longer im on here the more tired i get of it.

and badmouthing all the shit jap builds, or calling their shit "gay" or hideous. doesent do shit. they just respond with some shit about how " who cares if its jap, i built it, im hardcore".

its got nothing to do with your bike building skills to say your jap chopper sucks. there are a lot of jap bikes on here with more fabrication and technique in em then i will ever be able to pull off, but that doesent mean i want to log on to look at your kz400 "bobber".

subsections would make it alot easier for all of us to get to where we want to be on here, and to find the bikes that personally "float our boats".

[HI!]

I dont understand why change the board. The jap stuff is a trend like black and red. I think were missing the point of the board. but on a serios note:eek:, why not The dirtbike chopper journal .:D

[62rambler]

just last night i was thinking about how a japjournal.com was needed. guess im a little late.

that may be extreme, subsections atleast. jap, brit, HD, ... whatever would really help.

everyday the front page is full of shit. ive done it before myself, but the longer im on here the more tired i get of it.

and badmouthing all the shit jap builds, or calling their shit "gay" or hideous. doesent do shit. they just respond with some shit about how " who cares if its jap, i built it, im hardcore".

its got nothing to do with your bike building skills to say your jap chopper sucks. there are a lot of jap bikes on here with more fabrication and technique in em then i will ever be able to pull off, but that doesent mean i want to log on to look at your kz400 "bobber".

subsections would make it alot easier for all of us to get to where we want to be on here, and to find the bikes that personally "float our boats".

If you would, please let me know when this is "Gay". So i can quit riding "jap"bikes. Thanks---LOL ;)

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/kayjohn/IMG_0150.jpg

[little d]

DRAGON, i apoligize for my ignorance(the pm), the last time i saw this thread it was still on the board, closed. i also didnt realize the situation with ryan. even more reason to say you are doing a exilent job! the same goes to the rest of the mods.
i can see some very good points in most of the replys on this thread. but imo it all seams to come down to "schooling" i sugested to dragon that there be a prespective period for new members, they would only be able to pm a "sponser", he/she would then post it for them or "school" them. i now see that isnt a option. but couldent we all do this ourselvs? i mean we could let them know with out being a prick about it. also would it be posable to have the sticky about being a noob moved to the board also?

[Dragon]

C'mon Rambler...(btw what kinda bike is a '62 rambler ?), did you happen to read the whole thread....and see how many times the Denvers thread is held up as the EXCEPTION to the flood of craigslist-first-jap-bobber-thing projects posted, hmmm ??


And Little D, I apologise, I've gotten way backlogged on PMs and emails, but as to your point there, I wish folks would look at the thread on this board about "being on-topic, deletions etc"...the first post in that thread is a compilation of HAMB moderators' posts.

And there is one in there that's particularly applicable, it's in the context of their early days with few members vs the current 40,000 +. And of how valuable a well-worded reply or PM by an established member could be to help educate or 'steer' the new guy from becoming just another flame-out.

Kinda goes back to the 'bar' analogy, and the old concept of self-policing rather than turning to or counting on 'the man'.



Thanks again for the constructive commentary.

[62rambler]

dragon, sorry I was just teasing motomotard about what he said. I think the prefix thing will work out great. 62rambler is what I go by on the hamb and other boards. Its also the hot rod I built. Carry on. Keep up the good work. Thanks for all the time you spend on here taking out the trash.

[63CadGuy]

Well, we all have to realize that building something “traditional” is something of a fad, just like mini trucks, pro street, pastel colored street rods, etc. with one thing being a little different, history. Traditionally styled cars and bikes aren’t new, they are just resurfacing and becoming popular, and when something resurfaces the lines of what “was” can get skewed. The newbs see it one way, the “old timers” know it as another and generally the line becomes a bit blurry as to what really is traditional. Now I can only relate this to my experience on the HAMB, but the membership on the HAMB is made up with a similar mix of people as the Journal. And they have many of the same issues about what people are building and what is traditional or not, if you think I’m lying just stop in and say you’re building a “rat rod” and you’ll see what I mean, kind of like the “bobber” here.
So anyway, one of the biggest differences I see is that when someone posts something off topic on the HAMB people will step in with a bit of flaming, letting people know that was kind of a dumb question or a worthless post, but will also try to educate, explain why red wheels and flat black paint aren’t exactly traditional and that “rat rods” are really cobbed together excuses of hot rods and really have nothing to do with the way things were done back in the day. Then will try to post an example of what a more traditionally styled hot rod should look like, trying to help the miss-guided learn. Now I see the flaming going on here, but I don’t always see the educating. I don’t really see the members with the most traditional experience help people who don’t get it, try to get it. I’m not saying that people don’t try to help here because they do, but I think there needs to be more constructive help offered at times and members need to take these opportunities to explain the difference between what newbs are asking and what many of the “old timers” here think they should be asking. I also think that a well written “Mission” statement that would somewhat outline the basic “vision” of this site, that newbs can be pointed to, an area that will kind of give them a place to start. I also believe that a separate place to do an intro will provide a place for the members with more experience to guide new members in the ways of the Journal without putting a bunch of posts on the main board. I believe that the “old timers” and members with experience need to flame as well as guide. They need to show people what tradition is and share stories and experiences about what it was like so the newbs can start to see what the Journal is about. So in time with a bit of flaming, a bit of guidance and stories of how it really was this site will become what I think Ryan wants it to become.
Sorry for the long rant, I could be way off base, but I just wanted to put my .02 in because I think this place has a wealth of info to offer and I hate to see it turn into something nobody wants to visit. Now I have to go out and try to figure out how to get my newer CV carb to fit on my old IH motor, summer is fading already.

[Ryan]

Some good feedback here I think... Expect some changes and some news soon.