Tech. - How to use a file

[Jive Ass'd Turkey]

Grinder this. Grinder that. Phooey.

Buy a good set of Nicholson files and put the grinder down if you'd like to put a really nice finish on something.

Understand that a file only cuts one way and that's usually forward. All that seesawing back and forth people do is bad and dulls your file. Clamp whatever you're working on down to something so you can apply firm pressure to it while filing. Hold the file with two hands; one on the handle and one at the other end. When filing tubing or round things slide the file across as well as forward to keep your round thing round. Files talk. If you're using one correctly it will say zzzzz, zzzzz, zzzzz like Fiscars scissors do. It will also FILE rather than gouge.

Think files are archaic? Go ask the best machinist you can find if he thinks so. He'll convince you otherwise.

[Big Nick]

very good point! I just started using files more and it makes a difference.

[noodelz]

I live by my files. Draw filing with a mill smooth file is the best way to keep something's shape and give a bitchin finish, I can actually feel the surface through my file and tell how good it is. The only thing better that that is surface grinding, but not everyone has access to a machine.

It's funny I see all these young apprentices going full bore with a grinder and fucking shit up. They all give me funny looks when I break out my files and blow them away.

[NewYorkAndy]

100% back this.
I took down the rib weld on my fender w/ a file and it came out dialed.
The control you get with a file is unreal.
I like to be able to control the amount of material removed w/ out looking down and going... oh, shit.

Big up to a good set of files and taking the time to use them.

[Dr. Benway]

Yes to all this...I love my vixen file, I'm amazed at the nice gradual shaping you can do with it.

[Richie]

I love to file....
It drives me NUTS when the people I work with "see-saw" as you call it...
But they know everything so I just let them go...

[sickboi55]

some files do work back and forth.

[JasonMcElroy]

I decked my '66 BSA cases last week with some Dykem and a nice chalked coarse file. . . perfectly fucking flat, and better yet, SQUARE with the crank axis.

Took WAY less time than making a fixture for the Bport.

jason

[scraper]

i only have a couple shitty old files i got at a yard sale for a buck. can someone post a link to a "set" that would be ideal for a backyard metal masher like me?

[Big Nick]

i only have a couple shitty old files i got at a yard sale for a buck. can someone post a link to a "set" that would be ideal for a backyard metal masher like me?
Just as Jive Ass'd Turkey said
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&itemID=18406&keyword=nicholson%2Cfile&cm_mmc=PMD_SE-_-msn-_-Metal_Working-_-nicholson_files

[Dr. Benway]

I decked my '66 BSA cases last week with some Dykem and a nice chalked coarse file
jason

What does the chalk do, keep it from loading up?

[RAZ]

Don't forget a filecard to keep your files cleen.

[scraper]

nice - thanks nick - im'ma forward that link right over to santa.

[sickboi55]

i think i may be wrong about some cutting both ways. tried to find some and no go

[Big Nick]

What does the chalk do, keep it from loading up?
yup

[Dan]

having a proper handle on the file is huge help also, not trying to hang on to the tang...
can anyone list the uses for the different files, i.e. mill, bastard, vixen, etc...

[hatchethairy]

this is all news to me. thanks for the heads up. i find it funny though, cause i was just scoping out a set of files for christmas gift ideas....

hopefully the wife isn't a stupid whore and gets me what i suggested.

[HD48FL]

Definately essential tools!

[Big Nick]

can anyone list the uses for the different files, i.e. mill, bastard, vixen, etc...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[reid]

File in one direction when working with steel and back and forth when working with aluminum. It will clean out the aluminum on the back stroke. Especially when using a fine file.

[spasticreject]

Just used a small fine tooth file for setting ring gap, pretty essential unless you have a high dollar machine that does it for you. Then you're just lame, and I'm jealous.

I've always wondered where the term bastard file came from.

[tiberius]

Grinder to rough it out, 3" sander to fine tune a little and files to do the finish work. Keeping the files clean is imperative.

[KnuckleBuster]

I'll see if I can find my file descriptions when I get home and I'll post 'em up.

[Dr. Benway]

Files are classed as "coarse," "second cut" and "smooth," from coarsest to finest. Thus, a "bastard file" is a cut in between a "coarse" and a "second cut." The word "bastard" functions here in its meaning as "irregular." So, a "bastard file" is a file that is neither "coarse" nor "second cut."

[KnuckleBuster]

This is as good as anything I have home. From the McMaster-Carr website:

American-pattern files generally are used to remove material quickly as opposed to Swiss-pattern files which are for more precise work.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>Coarseness of Cut </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD> Bastard— Heavy removal with coarse finish. Second— Light removal with fair finish. Smooth— Finer finishing than second cut.</TD></TR><TR><TD> Single Cut— Use with light pressure for smooth finishes and to sharpen tool cutting surfaces. A single set of parallel teeth runs diagonally across the width of the file. </TD></TR><TR><TD> Double Cut— Use with heavier pressure than single-cut style for faster, rougher-finish cutting and more rapid material removal. Diagonal rows of teeth run across the width of the file in opposite directions.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=GeneralInfoFrameworkTbl cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=5>Swiss-pattern files are especially useful for finishing delicate and intricate parts. These files are excellent for removing burs, shaping, enlarging small holes, and finishing narrow grooves and keyways.
Swiss-pattern files are made to measurements that are more exacting than American-pattern files. This ensures precision smoothness. Select from a variety of shapes and coarseness grades ranging from No. 00 (coarse) to No. 4 (fine). </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="62%" colSpan=3> Cut No. 00— Comparable to bastard cut in American Pattern. Has 41 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 0— Comparable to second cut in American Pattern. Has 51 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 1— No comparable cut in American Pattern. Has 64 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 2— Comparable to smooth cut in American Pattern. Has 79 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 3— No comparable cut in American Pattern. Has 97 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 4— No comparable cut in American Pattern. Has 117 teeth per inch.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[SamIyam]

I love files.

I cringe when I see someone grind a bracket off and gouge metal...

I filed down my fork tubes last night where some fender brackets used to be.
Touched it up with a little emory cloth when I was done... and man, you'd never know the things were welded on!

Here is some file work... a bracket on our drag car. Notice the nice radius. It was done by first filing a 45 on the edges, and then splitting the difference between those angles, then again, then emory cloth.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/SamStrube/MVC-012S.jpg

[Boylecomm]

Great post, I love the file.

RE: chalk, what do you just fill up the file surface with a stick writing chalk?
I have issues with aluminum loading up a gouging the surface or is there aluminum specific files?





Grinder this. Grinder that. Phooey.

Buy a good set of Nicholson files and put the grinder down if you'd like to put a really nice finish on something.

Understand that a file only cuts one way and that's usually forward. All that seesawing back and forth people do is bad and dulls your file. Clamp whatever you're working on down to something so you can apply firm pressure to it while filing. Hold the file with two hands; one on the handle and one at the other end. When filing tubing or round things slide the file across as well as forward to keep your round thing round. Files talk. If you're using one correctly it will say zzzzz, zzzzz, zzzzz like Fiscars scissors do. It will also FILE rather than gouge.

Think files are archaic? Go ask the best machinist you can find if he thinks so. He'll convince you otherwise.

[Hardball]

Aluminum is softer and more "chewy" than steel, so it gums up the file pretty fast. We keep a few bars of Ivory soap around for drilling, tapping and filing aluminum, cuz it lets the tool bite but keeps it from loading up. You just drill or tap into the soap, or file the soap, and then use the tool as you normally would...always forward, light pressure, let the tool do the work.

I also like to use these deburring tools before finish filing. They save a ton of time, and can get into spots where the files are difficult to use. They work on aluminum and steel. Check 'em out at:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=12469695&PMT4NO=34697231

[hatchethairy]

looks like i gots some shopping to do come tax time!

1.bar of soap
2.emery cloth
3.shitload of various files
4.deburring tools
5.a little more patience


this shit is exactly why i need to take some machine/weld/fab classes.


if this thread isn't tossed into the tech section i am going to throw a fit.

[Hardball]

looks like i gots some shopping to do come tax time!

1.bar of soap
2.emery cloth
3.shitload of various files
4.deburring tools
5.a little more patience


this shit is exactly why i need to take some machine/weld/fab classes.


if this thread isn't tossed into the tech section i am going to throw a fit.

Dude...check out your local flea markets. Some of my first files are probably 40 years old, bought at flea markets and still use them. Keep them clean and dry and they stay sharp for years. Old tools show up all the time and the sellers usually let them go for a song.

[hatchethairy]

Dude...check out your local flea markets. Some of my first files are probably 40 years old, bought at flea markets and still use them. Keep them clean and dry and they stay sharp for years. Old tools show up all the time and the sellers usually let them go for a song.


i always forget about the flea markets. got quite a few in my area. i'll have to put that on the to-do list this weekend.

[Coco]

I was just about to buy a decent set of files so I'll ask this question first.

Mill or machine files? I assume machine which was my initial thought, but all I can find locally is mill files. I would have to mail order machine files. This thread came about just in time.

[scootermcrad]

YES!! Files RULE!!!

[VA Rebel]

Add a file card to your tool box.

Simple & inexpensive way to keep your files clean.

[Kojack]

Files were the first tools they gave us when I started my machinist apprenticeship. Take care of them and they last a long time. Abuse them and they make nice paint mixing sticks. Everyone should have at least one new file so you can see how bad your old files really are. Nicholson used to offer a really nice booklet on files and filing. I think it was called FILE FILOSOPHY.

[Barrows]

Thanks guys!

[Trumped]

"hopefully the wife isn't a stupid whore and gets me what i suggested."

classy!

[PBR Allstar]

My metal shop teacher was huge on proper file and hacksaw usage! Another good tip as far as files go: for taking down aluminum a body file (file used for cutting lead during bodywork) works really well when you either don't want to use power tools, or you want to "sneak up" on your finish, works good, removes a bit more material, doesn't clog too badly.

[Seek]

This is as good as anything I have home. From the McMaster-Carr website:

American-pattern files generally are used to remove material quickly as opposed to Swiss-pattern files which are for more precise work.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>Coarseness of Cut </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>Bastard— Heavy removal with coarse finish. Second— Light removal with fair finish. Smooth— Finer finishing than second cut.</TD></TR><TR><TD>Single Cut— Use with light pressure for smooth finishes and to sharpen tool cutting surfaces. A single set of parallel teeth runs diagonally across the width of the file. </TD></TR><TR><TD>Double Cut— Use with heavier pressure than single-cut style for faster, rougher-finish cutting and more rapid material removal. Diagonal rows of teeth run across the width of the file in opposite directions.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=GeneralInfoFrameworkTbl cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=5>Swiss-pattern files are especially useful for finishing delicate and intricate parts. These files are excellent for removing burs, shaping, enlarging small holes, and finishing narrow grooves and keyways.
Swiss-pattern files are made to measurements that are more exacting than American-pattern files. This ensures precision smoothness. Select from a variety of shapes and coarseness grades ranging from No. 00 (coarse) to No. 4 (fine).
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="62%" colSpan=3>Cut No. 00— Comparable to bastard cut in American Pattern. Has 41 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 0— Comparable to second cut in American Pattern. Has 51 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 1— No comparable cut in American Pattern. Has 64 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 2— Comparable to smooth cut in American Pattern. Has 79 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 3— No comparable cut in American Pattern. Has 97 teeth per inch.
Cut No. 4— No comparable cut in American Pattern. Has 117 teeth per inch.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> cool thanks

[concrete guy]

One of my favorite files is a small 3 sided file. Suprisingly enough I use it for tight radius's on round bar.

[Oilburner]

Something to add... File Storage-
Don't just throw'em in the drawer in a pile! A set of files that never gets used but get bounced around on top/against each other is just as bad as abused/wrongly used files. If you have a set that came in a carring pouch with seperate pockets for each one, keep it and use it. If you bought individual files- then keep them seperated from contacting each other somehow. All my files are in a drawer sitting on a rubber type mat and folded up in a peice of t-shirt (rag). Storage is part of proper care! This is an EXCELLENT tech thread!

[Hardball]

I was just about to buy a decent set of files so I'll ask this question first.

Mill or machine files? I assume machine which was my initial thought, but all I can find locally is mill files. I would have to mail order machine files. This thread came about just in time.

I prefer machine or machinist's files, but I have about a zillion different kinds. Mill files are good too, but generally larger. If I had to make a recommendation, I'd say pick up a decent set of machinist's files and a small set of Swiss files. That'll cover most of the bases.

Everything you ever wanted to know about files:

http://www.fedfile.com/file_terminology.html (http://www.fedfile.com/file_terminology.html)

Once you know what you're looking for, hit the flea market and look for some old, American or European made tools. Be aware that there are plenty of cheaply made brand new tools out there.

Oilburner made the point about storage, and he's right. Nothing will screw up your files faster than banging around with other files. I make sleeves out of duct tape for my good files and chisels. Put a 1 1/2 inch strip inside a 2 inch strip, sticky side to sticky side and fold it in half to make the sheath. Takes a minute, costs a few pennies and lasts for years.

[LUKESTER]

Files are gay... the only file you"ll catch me using is a DYNAFILE.... I ain"t got time to fuck around.........LUKESTER

[Neo Dutch]

I never file without chalk, particularly when doing aluminium. I use that huge stick chalk that you get for kids to draw on the sidewalk.

[Rudehog]

One tip to utilize while you are using a file is to work a crosshatch pattern on your subject (5 to 10 strokes then switch direction) try to use the length of the file,not the width when ever possible and the filed surface will come out nice and level.

-Eric

[Bonzer]

Great thread! Crosshatching is important, also, a big 14" Milling cit or Dreadnought file is very useful for shaping Aluminium.
Do you still have Apprenticeships over there?
I remember weeks of Benchwork class, having to make usless little things like filing a 1" cube DEAD SQUARE and flat so that it would be a push fit through a 1" square hole.
Plus filing, in the right circumstance is incredibly relaxing, you just go into a trance. You are the work!

[Hardball]

I never file without chalk, particularly when doing aluminium. I use that huge stick chalk that you get for kids to draw on the sidewalk.

Chalk is great for finish filing aluminum, but if you're going to weld the part after filing it, stick with the soap. The chalk can be ground into the metal and cause trouble with the weld, but the soap dissolves in water when you clean the part.

[toe-knee]

A machinist once showed me that if you don't have chalk or soap, WD40 will also work to keep the file clean. It will also work on deburing bits and rasps. Keep in mind if you are welding it though. Clean it WELL!!

[thecarfarmer]

I was just going to pipe up w/ a question along those lines... when I was a kid, I was told kerosene was a good general purpose lube for cutting aluminum.

Looking for verification on that.

I've started always using oil (usually just whatever is handy) every time I drill, hacksaw, or file anything metal; hacksaw blades and drill bits seem to last better. Probably work better if I got the right lubes...

-bill

-bill

[Antique Engine]

3/8 fuel line slipped over the pointed end makes a good handle in a pinch.

[Rudehog]

Great thread! Crosshatching is important, also, a big 14" Milling cit or Dreadnought file is very useful for shaping Aluminium.
Do you still have Apprenticeships over there?
I remember weeks of Benchwork class, having to make usless little things like filing a 1" cube DEAD SQUARE and flat so that it would be a push fit through a 1" square hole.
Plus filing, in the right circumstance is incredibly relaxing, you just go into a trance. You are the work!

It's amazing how having to make usless little things can give such a foundation for metal working.

I learned how to do metal finish body work about 26yrs ago from a 65 yr old bodyman that taught "old school methods".
It would be interesting to know if there are apprenticeships avalible that teach the finer art. I am sure there are.

-Eric

[ryangobie]

I love files.

I cringe when I see someone grind a bracket off and gouge metal...

I filed down my fork tubes last night where some fender brackets used to be.
Touched it up with a little emory cloth when I was done... and man, you'd never know the things were welded on!

Here is some file work... a bracket on our drag car. Notice the nice radius. It was done by first filing a 45 on the edges, and then splitting the difference between those angles, then again, then emory cloth.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/SamStrube/MVC-012S.jpg

any chance of a shot of the shaved forks? i'm about to do that soon.

[Hardball]

More File info for the file on Files...

http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/nicholson_files/index.cfm

Be sure to file this in the File file.